The Black Lives Matter Movement, in light of recent events?

[Jeongyeon]

tl;dr

I don't consider extremists and the Black Lives Matter movement synonymous. Simple as that. Clearly you do. Not going to argue with you if that's what you believe.

Lol. Bitterness. Ignorance is perhaps one of my least favorite traits in a person.

edit:
Just for clarity I don't have time to read what you wrote. Regardless, as a rule of thumb I don't try to argue with people who have already decided what they believe.

Angie, that is quite weak and unfair The dude presented solid points against your arguments. If you are not bothered to even read any counter arguments against yours, dont bother posting at all. This is a debate xone is it not?

[Roslyn]

Angie, that is quite weak and unfair The dude presented solid points against your arguments. If you are not bothered to even read any counter arguments against yours, dont bother posting at all. This is a debate xone is it not?

Most of the arguments he/she presented stemmed from the belief that the Black Lives Matter movement and extremism are symbiotic. @(you need an account to see links) is blaming BLM for being associated with violence. I think what he or she needs to ask is who exactly is it a associating the movement with violence? What else is there to debate?

I posted my opinion. Someone disagreed. I don't agree with their arguments. I'm smart enough to know that's generally time to step away. I can interject my opinion without having to ping-pong back and forth.

Anyways, @(you need an account to see links), your posts here are filled with so much hypocrisy it hurts my head which is honestly why I find it futile to debate with you. My heart goes out to the police officers who died tragically and yes, I have friends and family in the force. Yet I still support BLM. Believe it or not, you can support both. I think it's telling that you use "you're part of the problem" hurting your feelings as one of your arguments. BLM is about equality and human rights. If you're not with that, then why yes, you ARE part of the problem.

P.S. If your experience is based off of negative social media experiences, you need better friends.

[Sci_Girl]

I think what he or she needs to ask is who exactly is it a associating the movement with violence?

I am curious. There are many people who have been witness to the various BLM protests all over the Country. Some of those protests have involved setting cars on fire, breaking into stores, causing a disturbance on freeways/highways. Even those in Dallas who witnessed the killing of Police Officers . If someone on the sidelines witnessed these acts would they not believe BLM is associated with violence? So to answer your question those associating it to violence are those who have witnessed it first hand. Or is that way off base?

[Mindfang]

the Not All Cops/Whites/Men/Whatever the Fuck rhetoric is so tiring and not even worth a response but thanks i guess

[Roslyn]

I am curious. There are many people who have been witness to the various BLM protests all over the Country. Some of those protests have involved setting cars on fire, breaking into stores, causing a disturbance on freeways/highways. Even those in Dallas who witnessed the killing of Police Officers . If someone on the sidelines witnessed these acts would they not believe BLM is associated with violence? So to answer your question those associating it to violence are those who have witnessed it first hand. Or is that way off base?

I believe media outlets and racists have been perpetuating the idea that BLM is built around violence. BLM is high profile - of course violent extremists are going twist it to fit their agendas. Even still, I don't blame BLM for violent protesters. I don't blame Christianity for extremist Christians. I don't blame Islam for ISIS.

[starlin]

tl;dr

I don't consider extremists and the Black Lives Matter movement synonymous. Simple as that. Clearly you do. Not going to argue with you if that's what you believe.

Lol. Bitterness. Ignorance is perhaps one of my least favorite traits in a person.

edit:
Just for clarity I don't have time to read what you wrote. Regardless, as a rule of thumb I don't try to argue with people who have already decided what they believe.

I think my post made it very clear that I do not consider the whole BLM movement and extremists to be synonymous, but, as you said, you didn't bother to read, so you couldn't possibly know what I actually believe, and therefore there is, indeed, no sense in continuing. However, if you're going to say that "Most of the arguments he/she presented stemmed from the belief that the Black Lives Matter movement and extremism are symbiotic," I'd hope you could back that up, because I never said that. In fact, I've said the direct opposite a couple of times. What I did say, though, is that I have the ability to dig into my brain and understand how some people could have received the wrong impression of BLM. But you cannot seem to fathom such a thing or give a gentle answer to those people.

And lastly, just as you said you can both feel for the cops killed and be for BLM (which is something I've never disagreed with), you can also be for equality and human rights and against BLM.

[Roslyn]

@(you need an account to see links)

"We're all against racism."

Disagree. Racism is a very prevalent force in this country. How deluded are you to think that we're ALL against racism? If that were true, why is it so hard to unify as one?

"BLM is creating two sides in a battle in which we all really want the same thing."

This contradicts your statement above. BLM is about equality and human rights. It's about the fucked up criminal justice system. If we're all, ya know, against racism, then how is the premise of BLM creating two sides?

-insert story here about cop friend who was shot at by a criminal who happened to be black- "...He'll certainly carry that impression, that fear, with the rest of his career. And can you blame him?"

Yes. I can.
I'm a soldier. I've had friends and coworkers die at the hands of extremists. But I don't fear Muslims or people who look like Muslims. It sounds like your friend shouldn't be in law enforcement.

"This is something that I think is one of the fundamental flaws of BLM: it's the general logic behind "you received the wrong impression of me; therefore it's your fault that you did, regardless of my actions that may have contributed."

I'm going to start this off with the statement that the majority of supporters of the BLM movement aren't criminals. I'll move on to my next point.

Tell me what these people, who are not criminals, did to perpetuate the wrong impression?

"Regardless of my actions that may have contributed."

You lumped BLM movement all together at the beginning of this statement. This implies you believe that BLM supporters in general, contribute to this wrong impression. That these non-criminal supporters have perpetuated a negative stigma. What's this contribution? Looking a certain way? Being black? Advocating for human rights and equality which is what BLM is?

"I am bothered by BLM's failure to take a real look at its methods, it's message, and its influence. It does not and will not take responsibility for any problems it might cause--and not just problems caused by lone wolves here and there."

So again. BLM's message: equality. Preservation of human rights. An end to a warped justice system. But let's blame them not only for the lone wolves but the BLM message in general. Which, again, is equality. Is that what you're getting at? The movement should be responsible for wrongful interpretations of its meaning. Interpretations that are mostly made by racists. That's not logical whatsoever.

You realize that after the Dallas shooting, there were outpours of BLM leaders condemning the event? Reminders from BLM supporters that the dreams of the movement would not be achieved with violence. Are you deaf to the people encouraging peaceful protest? To not fight this battle with violence? THIS is what BLM is. THIS is what I support.

"BLM isn't the way."
Let me translate this for you:
Equality isn't the way. Human rights isn't the way. Fixing the justice system isn't the way. Not having 12-year-old boys shot down for the color of their skin and "perceived" threat isn't the way. Don't argue with me on this one. Tamir Rice wouldn't have been shot if he was white.

"But you cannot fathom such a thing or give a gentle answer to those people."

Lol. You and your sensitivity. Of course I'm going to get pissed. Your statements are rooted in privilege and victim blaming. Yet you're upset when you're called out for what you are.

"...You can also be for equality and human rights and against BLM."

For the last time, this contradicts itself. Because if you understood BLM you'd know BLM and equality and human rights ARE FUCKING SYNONYMOUS. Black Lives Matter because the lives of blacks matter. Simple. You disagree with that? Really?

[Sci_Girl]

BLM protested in Canada. Stopped the Toronto Pride Parade to get what they want. Not violence laden or about shooting Black people. It was a protest about equality. And stopped a major City event to make an Official sign a list of demands including "removal of Police floats in marches/parades". I did not know BLM was making their way here.

(you need an account to see links)

[Irohh]

Honestly the media is so biased when dealing with these things, and it's seriously messed up that corrupt cops are killing African Americans for the color of their skin. But I think antagonizing other people when you're essentially on the same side isn't right, we need to be united to end the threat that is racial profiling and Killing innocent people!
America is so divided right now and it hurts me to see our country so torn, there are obviously a lot of underlying causes that need to be dealt with so we can stop the hatred and violence

[starlin]

Thanks for responding, @(you need an account to see links). I do appreciate it. I know I tend to write a lot.

"Disagree. Racism is a very prevalent force in this country. How deluded are you to think that we're ALL against racism? If that were true, why is it so hard to unify as one?"

You're right. We're not all against racism. I was generalizing there, and I didn't actually mean that there were no individuals out there who aren't proud in their racism. But I do believe that the vast majority of people would agree that they are against racism. The division right now isn't caused by racism. It's not a division of racists vs. non-racists.

"This contradicts your statement above. BLM is about equality and human rights. It's about the fucked up criminal justice system. If we're all, ya know, against racism, then how is the premise of BLM creating two sides?"

No, it doesn't contradict my other statement. The two sides I was referring to there are the side of those crying for justice for the black community and the side of those crying for a fair judgment of cops. Like you and I agree (I think, correct me if I'm wrong), the two don't have to be divided sides. You can want cops to be judged fairly and fight for justice for the black community, and the reverse is true. That's what I mean by "two sides in a battle in which we all really want the same thing." Both sides (in general, I believe) want to see an end to racism, want to see justice for blacks, and want cops to be judged fairly.

"Yes. I can.
I'm a soldier. I've had friends and coworkers die at the hands of extremists. But I don't fear Muslims or people who look like Muslims. It sounds like your friend shouldn't be in law enforcement."

Okay, then I can't touch that. That's your view. But I stand by mine that if you're going to accept that black individuals are afraid of white cops because of their experiences, whether it's a good inclination to feel or not, you have to allow the same for the other side and whatever patterns cops have witnessed. And whether a good inclination to have or not, I think it warrants empathy. I have no experienced in the military, so I can't really speak first-hand on this, but I do know those who are not as fortunate as you in being able to separate what they have witnessed from separate events. But I do think that is a good thing to be able to say, but again, I think there should still be empathy for the others.

"I'm going to start this off with the statement that the majority of supporters of the BLM movement aren't criminals. I'll move on to my next point.

Tell me what these people, who are not criminals, did to perpetuate the wrong impression?

You lumped BLM movement all together at the beginning of this statement. This implies you believe that BLM supporters in general, contribute to this wrong impression. That these non-criminal supporters have perpetuated a negative stigma. What's this contribution? Looking a certain way? Being black? Advocating for human rights and equality which is what BLM is?"

Again, you're deducing the wrong information from my words. I attributed the form of logic I mentioned as something that runs rampant in BLM in various forms. I never said that peaceful protestors directly contributed to the bad things done by some, but they do associate with the BLM name. And because they associate with the BLM name, the actions of the movement are going to reflect on them, whether they like it or not. Lone wolves aside, police deaths aside, BLM protests have resulted in a lot of bad things--bad things that entire protesting groups carried out. So, as a movement, BLM should be acknowledging this with an attitude of understanding. Those who identify under its name should be able to approach those who receive the wrong impression and say, "You know what, I understand why you received this impression, but let me show you differently." But that's not what's going on. Those who identify under the BLM name approach those who perceive the movement differently than they would like with "you're part of the problem" and similar language. There is no recognition or understanding of what has been associated with the movement to contribute to alternate views. I don't blame BLM as a whole for the instances of crime in various forms; I do blame it for how it has responded to those instances.

"So again. BLM's message: equality. Preservation of human rights. An end to a warped justice system. But let's blame them not only for the lone wolves but the BLM message in general. Which, again, is equality. Is that what you're getting at? The movement should be responsible for wrongful interpretations of its meaning. Interpretations that are mostly made by racists. That's not logical whatsoever.

You realize that after the Dallas shooting, there were outpours of BLM leaders condemning the event? Reminders from BLM supporters that the dreams of the movement would not be achieved with violence. Are you deaf to the people encouraging peaceful protest? To not fight this battle with violence? THIS is what BLM is. THIS is what I support."

I was referring to the message it is sending to others, not the message it intends to send to others. I should have been more specific, but I felt like my surrounding context showed that I am not against equality, human rights, and ending corruption in the justice system. In fact, I directly said that. This goes back to my last response. I think it's clear that BLM is sending the wrong message to many, and it has to acknowledge this. And notice, in my previous response I left out the Dallas shooting. The Dallas shootings are not the basis for my beliefs.

"Let me translate this for you:
Equality isn't the way. Human rights isn't the way. Fixing the justice system isn't the way. Not having 12-year-old boys shot down for the color of their skin and 'perceived' threat isn't the way. Don't argue with me on this one. Tamir Rice wouldn't have been shot if he was white."

I've never argued that. But saying that BLM is not the way does not equate to "Equality isn't the way. Human rights isn't the way. Fixing the justice system isn't the way."

"Lol. You and your sensitivity. Of course I'm going to get pissed. Your statements are rooted in privilege and victim blaming. Yet you're upset when you're called out for what you are."

I wasn't asking you to show a gentle answer toward me. This statement was about those who disagree with you in general. You called us out those of us who are not for BLM for lacking empathy toward black individuals in our posts. I disagreed, but, regardless, in return I called you out for lacking empathy for others who disagree with you for various reasons--empathy that you have still not shown. I'm not personally hurt by you.

"For the last time, this contradicts itself. Because if you understood BLM you'd know BLM and equality and human rights ARE FUCKING SYNONYMOUS. Black Lives Matter because the lives of blacks matter. Simple. You disagree with that? Really?"

I agree that black lives matter. But I disagree with the approach of Black Lives Matter. I disagree that equality and human rights and BLM are synonymous.