No indictment in Ferguson case

[Bowsette]

I'm honestly sickened by it

[I_royalty_I]

Okay, some of the comments in this thread have made me glad I'm not close to anyone on this site anymore.

Have you heard of:
Tamir Rice
Brian Dennison
John Crawford III
Eric Garner
Cameron Tillman
VonDerrit Myers Jr.
Diana Showman

All of these people were killed by cops. Michael Brown is not an isolated incident. People need to be outraged, people need to be rioting. The LITERAL KKK support Darren Wilson, so if you support him too, that's saying a lot.

After this, I'll be taking a hiatus from this site, if I come back. If you haven't heard of the people I listed, maybe look them up. Educate yourselves before you say "oh those idiots, maybe they shouldn't riot if they don't want to be killed".

There are other stories about white kids getting shot by black cops as well. But they usually don't make the news as often as the other way around.
Just because the KKK support Darren Wilson, doesn't mean he supports them. That argument is ridiculous. Of course they support him, they are the KKK...... What do you expect? If you expect any differently, you're obviously mental. But that's not to say Darren Wilson supports the KKK and what they believe in?

So in turn, saying that if you support Wilson, you support the KKK is insane.

I'm not even sure where to begin with the rest of your argument, but we can agree to disagree on some points, no worries.

[Matt~]

.......

[Naomi]

Wherever you fall on the Ferguson case, we should remember that even if Darren Wilson acted responsibly by shooting Michael Brown six times, even if we agree with his decisions or if we believe there is not enough proof to condemn him (after all, innocent until proven guilty), we must also remember that this is ONE case among many. It is not an isolated case, and Darren Wilson's innocence or guilt does not abdicate or condemn the 750,000 US police officers. For people who require proof, here is the footage of Eric Garner's death. (you need an account to see links)

His death was ruled a homicide. The officer was not indicted. Remember indictment means something VERY different from a guilty verdict; this is the exact opposite of "innocent until proven guilty." The officer was not even indicted. Now, who's fault is that? It falls on a lot of people and a lot of issues. The blame does not merely fall on the police officers; it is regular citizens who failed to indict the officer. This is not an easy fix. There is no easy fix. We do not live in a post-racial society, and the question of race in America is not as easily solved as putting a police officer behind bars. We are making steps. Small steps.

I think, Matt, you make some good points and obviously I am of a similar frame of mind in regards to the guilt of Darren Wilson. However, you should also note that there actually IS an "agree to disagree" on this topic in some respects; we can agree to disagree that Darren Wilson is innocent or guilty. We cannot agree to disagree that racism exists. Racism does exist. That is undeniable. I do not think, however, that Andrew is denying that. He's made some good points in his posts, though obviously I disagree with a lot of what he says. But he can certainly believe that Darren Wilson is innocent and that does not make him a racist/supporter of the KKK. He's definitely trying to think through these issues and modify his argument or beliefs based on what he finds to be justifiable. That is more than a lot of people are doing.

Also calling someone a 'racist' implies a lack of racism among others, or somehow, that you or others are 'above' racism. Racism is not so simple as lining a group of people up and pointing at one and saying 'he's a racist' and 'that chick isn't a racist.' I had a professor freshman year, a well-known author who focuses on mass incarceration, who talked a lot about "unconscious bias." I really appreciated her argument, which was basically that everyone is racist to varying degrees and a lot of that is not conscious; we don't know we are making judgments even as we are doing it and that even if we believe we are aware of race issues and we try not to engage in racist behavior, we still cannot completely rid ourselves of those prejudices. She also graded our essays blindly because of beliefs about "unconscious bias." It was a really interested class because it forced me to see myself as a racist individual and to notice the ways i pre-judge people based on their skin. So basically, Darren Wilson and other police officers may not believe they are acting out of racism, but chances are, it is affecting how they interact and respond to situations. If Michael Brown was a white boy, maybe he would've still been shot, but maybe he would've only received that first shot in the arm, and he would still be alive. Similarly, if Eric Garner was an attractive, white man, I truly believe he would still be alive today, and if you watch that video, I think you will also agree with me on that. This is a difficult world we live in because we are being forced to confront things that make us very uncomfortable--the fact that we are flawed and that our mistakes, our prejudices have the power to kill. The way we respond to people correlates with how we judge them and those judgments happen instantaneously, whether or not we are aware of it. There are no easy answers to this discussion. Putting Darren Wilson behind bars might be 'justice', but that is really not what we need. What we need is an honest discussion about race. The protests are forcing our hand, forcing the US to take heed, which is great. But they are not enough. Andrew asked what the point of these protests were; what do they achieve? They force us to talk about the issues. They force us to think, to research, to educate ourselves, to reconsider the way we respond to situations.

[I_royalty_I]

Hopefully your entire opinion isn't based off of what is circulating on tumblr? The mob/sheep mentality that is tumblr right now is insane. It makes me wonder how many people there are capable of thinking for themselves. Regardless, some of the "sources" in that post are quite outdated. The prime example that I see if the bit about the "eye witnesses" saying this or that. The witnesses would say one thing one day, then the next day they straight up admitted that they were lying. They admitted to trying to change their story based off what they saw on the news. Some of them didn’t even see anything at all!

"“At least one witness stated that as Officer Wilson got out of his vehicle, he shot Mr. Brown multiple times as Mr. Brown stood next to the vehicle,” McCulloch said. “Yet another witness stated that Officer Wilson stuck his gun out of the window and fired at Mr. Brown as Mr. Brown was running. One witness stated there were actually two police vehicles and four officers present, but only one officer fired a weapon.”"
(you need an account to see links)


But that's just one example of how much of a grey area that whole situation in Ferguson really is. I agree that there should have at least been a trial, but I'm not convinced of anything beyond there at this point, seeing as how we don't really know ALL the facts.

Regarding Darren Wilson and his association with the KKK...
The only evidence that I have seen regarding this coming from the group Anonymous. I don't consider this evidence to be very conclusive by any means. They are notorious for wanting to stir shit up.

You can agree to disagree on serious issues. It's not a, you agree with me or you’re a racist piece of shit. lol There are many sides to this story, and it's important to focus on the larger picture here. Yes, racism is a thing in this country. It is perpetuated by many things, and it is a two way street. They were rioting because they were pissed off because of the decision, and they had a right to be angry. But rioting is not the proper way to go about it, especially since a majority of the businesses that were ruined were minority owned.

The man in Arizona was no angel by any means. A quick google searched and reading the story will paint a pretty grim picture regarding that. It's not just white cops who get off either, its cops in general. There are plenty of stories to back this up to, they just don't make headlines because the media likes pushing the racism card.


No riots in this case. They don't know whether the use of force was justified, they won't even release whether the kid was armed. There has been no decision yet as to what will happen to the cop, but likely nothing judging by the articles that I read.
(you need an account to see links)


"Officer Trevis Austin shot and killed Gilbert Collar, a white, unarmed 18-year-old man who was under the influence of drugs. A Mobile County Grand Jury refused to bring charges against Officer Austin, concluding that the officer acted in self-defense."
(you need an account to see links)


It's easy to say what one person does is extreme and/or unnecessary. But you will never truly know until you are in a situation like that. How would you react in that situation, where you feel like your life is on the line? Would you stand there, just in case, so you don't get in trouble? Or would you act upon seeing a threat, and do something to protect your own life? I'm not saying it's always so cut and dry, just that it's way too easy to point fingers. Perhaps it's easier for me to see things the way I see them because I treat everyone the same, regardless of who they are. I don't think I ever said that I think Wilson is completely innocent either. I said that there should have been a trial so that all the evidence could have been brought together and examined further. I don't think Mike Brown was an innocent angel that some people would have you believe, but that doesn't mean I think he deserved to be killed. I don't. I like to take everything into consideration, read everything I can so that my opinions stem from solid proof, not he said she said. Maybe more people should learn to think for themselves and research things a bit further. So calling me a racist for not being outraged is pretty ignorant of you.

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

The protests are forcing our hand, forcing the US to take heed, which is great. But they are not enough. Andrew asked what the point of these protests were; what do they achieve? They force us to talk about the issues. They force us to think, to research, to educate ourselves, to reconsider the way we respond to situations.

I definitely do agree with you here! The only issue is that I feel most people aren't really doing that, they are simply using it to justify their anger and violence. I have talked to a few people who have definitely researched and thought things through a bit more, and that's great. I don't always agree with everyone, but I enjoy seeing different opinions that people have. Sometimes I walk away with something that I hadn't thought about, and sometimes it's the opposite. But on the other hand, I have seen plenty of people who are clearly uneducated on the subject and are just spouting whatever rubbish they hear, hear or there. I feel like we are at a turning point right now. There are so many major issues that are bubbling up, and we are almost at the cusp where the next generation will begin taking over positions of power. Who knows what the next 10 years will bring.

[spysie]

I'm sorry I am really upset by this, for people to be on Darren Wilson side and not just as a black person but in general.

So all of you saying Darren Wilson was simply defending himself against a large man, why does that give him the right to take someone's life?

He was a cop he could have either gotten things under control by a taser or brute force, but instead decided to shoot and kill this 18year old. One who is even the officer of the law should not be given this privilege, and even if he was a "thug" to be killed at the scene of the crime is not our jury, but to be deemed guilty/not guilty should be in the court of law. How can we give our trust to people who serve and protect our community when they choose who to do such actions towards? Perhaps yes the rioting is crazy, but look at other places where people are quietly protesting to get their voices heard.

(you need an account to see links)

my school has also tried to do their part in this with peaceful marchings every day this week, with me joining again tonight.
I have heard a cadet yell out of windows "shut up and go home".
I have had friends who have simply been driving down the street to school, and everyday stopped by a cop. "When are you gonna stop pulling me over?" "When you leave".

For those of you trying to pull the racist cards "but when a white kid gets shot by a black cop nothing get to the media" that is an excuse to make yourselves the victims as well. This is not an issue about race but about social power. I keep thinking that if my own 1 year old brother had been in the position that Mike Brown was in, years down the road, I myself would b overwhelmed with grief. no person, of ANY color skin should have to constantly think about that, or have to think that each and every day we are preyed on by the stereotypes put on us by the majority.

In the case of Eric Garner.... watch the video for himself. And how dare you continue to support police officers.
(you need an account to see links)
A man could obviously not breathe and with not so much resistance he was put into a constant choke hold even after being put into the ground.
What sort of justice is this? But when white people have committed several shootings world wide and have died, they are simply claimed to be insane. but as a black person they are automatically portrayed as a thug.

The police and law system is corrupt. For you to say you support both police men to not be indicted means you support a country where it is not fair and just at all. :/

Neither autopsies give concrete evidence, when Mike Brown's was constantly changing as was the statement of Darren Wilson. All we know for sure was that a person died by someone whose job is simply to arrest them and then let the judicial system decide. but he didn't; he put the law into his hands.
Eric Garner TOLD the cops he couldn't breathe. forget that he was resisting. HE COULDN'T BREATHE. Imagine being suffocated and trying to tell the person who is harming you, intentionally or not, that you cannot breathe. no one deserves such a slow pain.

and both of these humans died. not WILD ANIMALS, though they were treated as such. This wouldn't have happened to a white person though. No way, they wouldn't been given so many chances.

Just please, try to imagine this for your brothers and sisters, and future kin.

What insensitivity I'm hearing from some people. But riots haven't been met with such disdain from the 2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot, or a few of the upsets coming from college football games this year (VT vs OSU, WVU vs Baylor, UVA vs Louisville).


also, the fact of people saying "they were not an angel" NO ONE TRULY IS. are YOU an angel? No. But do you deserve to die in these events all the same?

[Aska]

The Eric Garner case has really pissed me off. Why is the guy recording the video of Garner dying getting indicted? I'm calling bullshit on this one.

[Misha]

The Mike Brown case has insufficient information for me to base an opinion, though I do believe a taser would have subdued him just fine. In the Eric Garner case, that cop should be charged with homicide. There were 5 other officers standing there that could have helped subdue him without cutting off his airway. I support officers in what they do, if they're actually doing their job in the fashion they were hired to do so. I have met countless cops that have been absolutely wonderful people. That being said, there are corrupt and power hungry dickheads out there with a badge and a gun who feel they are invincible. Classism at its finest. They should have to wear body cameras, and they should have a trial by jury of their peers aka regular citizens if they are ever charged with a crime like homicide. It's not fair that most of the time they are investigated by their own department which obviously benefits the officer in question.

[Lincoln]

Doesn't an indictment simply mean they will go to trial? If anything, doesn't this deserve a trial? So many discrepancies in eye-witnesses, evidence, 'video'. That seems to be just what a trial would be for, to sort this shit out. Refusing to go to trial because they cannot prematurely prove guilt is just stupid, IMHO. They have gone to trial for far harder to prove scenarios. Trial doesn't mean conviction. It means an attempt to sort out and find what really happened, outside of the influence of what an 'inside investigation' entails.