Suicide : is it ever justifiable?

[Xanice]

While I'm not an avid believer of christianity's stake in suicide, which is that it's a sin as you commit "murder" I don't particularly agree with it. Ultimately, I believe that the choice is yours to make. Back in old Japan, seppuku was not considered suicide, but considered redeeming one's own life of lost honor. These people did it knowing full well that it would kill them (obviously) and did it because it brought balance to their life, likely because the idea of a samurai was to never lose in battle. The punishment for losing and living was to be seppuku. It would motivate them to never lose (of course though, if they did :x....)

While I don't agree with suicide in general, I feel that people have misconstrued alot about it. Alot of people seems to use suicide as a method to escape depression is definately the worst of possibilities. There's such a thing as sacrificing yourself as a martyr, and another such thing as not understanding the value of your own life. Arguably, 'suicide bombers' (again while a tough subject, and not one that I agree with at all) ultimately viewed themselves as martyrs for a greater goal, whether it be a crusade or just promises to keep their families safe. This day and age though people just think about suicidal depressed people spiraling out of control as the only cases of suicide (all ones which where the victims don't comprehend the value of their own life).

Tough subject. Ultimately, I'd say not having suicide around would do more good then the latter though.

[Syphon]

Speaking as someone who has suicidal thoughts and tendencies, I've thought through a ton of this shit before. Of course it's justifiable.

To those commiting suicide, it's the final gift one can give oneself. You have to remember the only people who would commit suicide are very mentally or physically ill, where they are living in suffering every day. The pain is so completely unbearable that death is the only way to make it stop. It's one's way out. Even just the thought of it - without actually performing the act - is settling; it's nice to know that there is a way out of the pain if and when it becomes too much. I know this actually helps me get through my days. Thoughts are thoughts, and a lot of the time they are only thoughts.

To people who say suicide is cowardly and selfish: How selfish are you for wanting someone to live in suffering every day, just trying to make it through the day? I hate when people say shit like that without actually knowing how difficult it really is.

Also, you have to realize that mental illnesses don't disappear. One can be doing well for a long period of time, but there is always the chance of a relapse. One lives with his or her illness for life. It doesn't ever go away completely. Shit's fuckin hard man. Scary shit.

[vetgrl]

I have only ever justified any crime or harm this way: Does it save someone elses life? IF you are saving someone elses life. So give me a a scenario in which you saved someones life by killing yourself. (Maybe your life insurance policy will pay for you're wife's life saving surgery because you have life insurance but apparently not good health insurance, I don't know.)

The "selfish" thing is pretty much what healthy people think. Here is when its not selfish: If you are an orphan and have no friends and never talk to anyone and people would not find your body for weeks because no one would care.

If you are going to make someone cry by killing yourself, yes thats selfish. You didn't care if you make that "loved one" cry and be in despair. And I put that in quotations because I use love loosely there. That's not love.

I don't want anyone to suffer I want the sick people to get help and feel better somehow.

[Syphon]

I don't want anyone to suffer I want the sick people to get help and feel better somehow.

Well that's not very helpful. People go through years of suffering, years of therapy, support groups, etc, trying to get better. It takes a lot of energy, and a lot of the time that energy just isn't there. It takes a ton of energy just to get up and shower/eat/brush teeth/etc. Just minor, basic things people take forgranted. It takes a ton of energy to constantly wear the mask of wellness. Obviously the sick don't want others to worry, ask questions, get involved. If one puts all of his or her energy into basic self-care and acting well, how much energy does one have left to work on recovery?

also I'm pretty sure suicide would nullify any kind of life insurance policy, but that's not important

[vetgrl]

also I'm pretty sure suicide would nullify any kind of life insurance policy, but that's not important

Thats why I am saying its selfish 99% of the time. Unless there is some sort of way is saves a life too, or if there is literally no one left behind to care. I'm sure there is some rare case of that.

The question was is it EVER justifiable and I say if it ever is, its the exception, not the rule. I don't think its always or usually justifiable.

[Xanice]

Well that's not very helpful. People go through years of suffering, years of therapy, support groups, etc, trying to get better. It takes a lot of energy, and a lot of the time that energy just isn't there. It takes a ton of energy just to get up and shower/eat/brush teeth/etc. Just minor, basic things people take forgranted. It takes a ton of energy to constantly wear the mask of wellness. Obviously the sick don't want others to worry, ask questions, get involved. If one puts all of his or her energy into basic self-care and acting well, how much energy does one have left to work on recovery?

also I'm pretty sure suicide would nullify any kind of life insurance policy, but that's not important

That's a pretty dreary way to view life, and this is coming from a cynic. People aren't all happy. Don't get me wrong I do feel bad for people who are chronically depressed, since it's a downward spiral. I have a friend whom I endear like a sister that is that way. However, the magic of the human world is that there are miraculous cures not founded by pills or science. Ones that can only come from human interaction, or lifechanging events which rework one's spirituality and their views on life. Are many people with depression depressed all of their lives? Yes. Does it remain true for everyone for the rest of their lives? Horse shit. Depression is a state of mind, one which can be overcome with their own sheer will. You say it's a mental illness and that there's nothing you can do. Also bullshit. There's alot you can do about depression, if you just look for something in the world that you think is worth living for. People who would throw away their lives so easily obviously have not matured enough to find something important enough to them that keeps them motivated to keep on living, whether it be a love of their life, a utopian dream, or maybe a dream to help as many people as they can from having to repeat their mistakes, IE something like staying depressed with suicidal tendencies.

Dream big, and you'll learn that wasting the time you're given in this world by committing suicide is not worth the loss of pain. People who are put through pain learn experiences that only they can teach future generations about, and this invaluable knowledge is something that can save youthful generations to come.

[Syphon]

That's a pretty dreary way to view life, and this is coming from a cynic. People aren't all happy. Don't get me wrong I do feel bad for people who are chronically depressed, since it's a downward spiral. I have a friend whom I endear like a sister that is that way. However, the magic of the human world is that there are miraculous cures not founded by pills or science. Ones that can only come from human interaction, or lifechanging events which rework one's spirituality and their views on life. Are many people with depression depressed all of their lives? Yes. Does it remain true for everyone for the rest of their lives? Horse shit. Depression is a state of mind, one which can be overcome with their own sheer will.

Depression is an illness, whether you accept it or not. If it was so easy to overcome, no one would be depressed. No one would have to work so fucking hard to make it to tomorrow.
I also never said people are always depressed. I said the illness is never 100% gone. There is always a chance of relapse, always a chance to fall back down. It's the tools you learn to cope and to intervene when you notice mood going down.

You say it's a mental illness and that there's nothing you can do. Also bullshit. There's alot you can do about depression, if you just look for something in the world that you think is worth living for. People who would throw away their lives so easily obviously have not matured enough to find something important enough to them that keeps them motivated to keep on living, whether it be a love of their life, a utopian dream, or maybe a dream to help as many people as they can from having to repeat their mistakes, IE something like staying depressed with suicidal tendencies.

Depression isn't the only mental illness. Not only people suffering from depression think about suicide as a viable option. Anxiety disorders, psychosis, etc. There's a lot more than mood disorders around.
I also never said there's nothing you can do about having a mental illness. You're making up my words.

the only reason I'm still alive is because of my sister. I would be long gone without her.

You think it's a dreary way to look at life, then k.
I'm speaking as someone with a mood and anxiety disorder, and I want my fucking life back. If it was as easy as you seem to think it is, I would be fine. But instead I'm scared to leave my house, scared to talk to people or make phone calls. I have zero energy and motivation. I rarely eat, rarely shower, sleep way more than is healthy. I'm constantly scared of myself, scared of my responses to emotional situations, overly angry, always frustrated. I've been anxious about everything since I was 13, depressed since I was 15. I'm almost 20 now. I'm a little tired of this shit. Pisses me the fuck off, and people think I'm just fucking lazy.

oops guess i outed myself w/e

[davebold370]

I lost a sister due to this. It's very painful for the family, but I can understand both ends. When you are dealing with chemical depression it's hard to break free.

Suicide is not a cowards way out. It's just a way out. We all have choices to make. How we escape our depressions is up to us, but we have to make a choice. The deeper into depression we go, the harder it is to make that choice. The more numb we become. In the end though, the choice is to stay here and work through the numb or to feel the final pain of death?

A three year old boy told it best to me while i was working at walmart, "Your reality is controlled by the intent of your change." We choose to change. If our intent is strong enough, we will escape. If it is not, we will fall into either a slow suicide or a quick one.

[Tay]

Suicide isn't a choice. Suicide is the result of a mental illness or a heartbreak or a deep longing for not wanting to be on this planet any day. It is NOT selfish and it is NOT cowardly. Mainly those who say so are those who have never experienced such a feeling. To wake up and feel like not a person in the world would care if you died? To feel that your friends have abandoned you? To feel as though nothing even matters, not even you, and so what is the point to keep on going? I've had suicidal thoughts and I am currently trying to shake off anorexia nervosa and the feelings of absolutely hating myself. I cannot stand to even look in the mirror sometimes. It sickens me. I am absolutely disgusting.

I do not choose to believe or think this way. Believe me if I could wake up in love with myself and thinking I'm hot shit, I would choose that. It's simply how I am. My brother also suffers from anorexia nervosa and still struggles with the feelings of going nowhere in life (though he is a 4.0 College student on the Deans list) and fears the thought of having nobody. The fact my parents constantly bring him down weighs a ton on him, as well. You cannot imagine how difficult it is to stay awake in fear that your brother is going to overdose purposely on diet pills or kill himself in the night...all the while you yourself are fighting the very same thoughts.

Is suicide selfish? No. You DO think about others. I always think about others when thinking about my death. I think about how much better it would be without me as a nuisance, a reminder, and the world would be a brighter place.

And that's all I have to say.

[Xanice]

Suicide isn't a choice. Suicide is the result of a mental illness or a heartbreak or a deep longing for not wanting to be on this planet any day. It is NOT selfish and it is NOT cowardly. Mainly those who say so are those who have never experienced such a feeling. To wake up and feel like not a person in the world would care if you died? To feel that your friends have abandoned you? To feel as though nothing even matters, not even you, and so what is the point to keep on going? I've had suicidal thoughts and I am currently trying to shake off anorexia nervosa and the feelings of absolutely hating myself. I cannot stand to even look in the mirror sometimes. It sickens me. I am absolutely disgusting.

I do not choose to believe or think this way. Believe me if I could wake up in love with myself and thinking I'm hot shit, I would choose that. It's simply how I am. My brother also suffers from anorexia nervosa and still struggles with the feelings of going nowhere in life (though he is a 4.0 College student on the Deans list) and fears the thought of having nobody. The fact my parents constantly bring him down weighs a ton on him, as well. You cannot imagine how difficult it is to stay awake in fear that your brother is going to overdose purposely on diet pills or kill himself in the night...all the while you yourself are fighting the very same thoughts.

Is suicide selfish? No. You DO think about others. I always think about others when thinking about my death. I think about how much better it would be without me as a nuisance, a reminder, and the world would be a brighter place.

And that's all I have to say.

While I am not one of the people who used the coined phrase of "coward" for suicide and take a rather neutral approach to the situation, I would like you to know that the statement bolded above is 100% false 8) And hopefully, one day you will come to realize that!