What are your thoughts on the trans movement? Is there merit and extremes?

[Erik.]

I don't go around screaming about how I'm a woman.

Of course not! But if you were denied jobs, health care, entrance, hated on or discriminated in any other way just for being a woman I assume you would. We want the same human rights, and the same amount of respect. We can only achieve this by being vocal and visible, "in your face" I guess.That's not an obsession with sexuality or "intense performance" (not sure what you mean by this, Gay Pride I'm assuming?), that's standing up for yourself and saying we're not ashamed to be who we are.

[I_royalty_I]

I was definitely on the fence about posting anything in here because it's a fine line to walk - but I figure open discussion is never a bad thing.

The only thing I dislike about this current issue are the discussions stemming into teaching sex and gender to children in school. It's hard for me to imagine my child being in elementary school learning about heterosexuality/homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. Just teach my child how to be a productive member of society. Teach them to read, teach them science and math. Teach them about history and reading, while they build their social skills amongst their peers. I'm not interested in some teacher who I don't truly know as a person pushing their views and opinions off on my children. Granted that's not how every school/teacher is, but it does happen. My wife and I are very careful with what family and friends may say around our child. Children are innocent and bigotry starts at home, so we want to do our part to raise a more accepting next generation.
On the flip side(extreme), somebody in my family is a teacher and they have students who literally get violent if somebody doesn't use their pronouns - their pronouns being "goat" or "pony" - wearing goat hooves and a pony tail around school. The admins have no option but to allow this and make special accommodations for them. I'm sorry, but that's where I draw the line in my own head. I can support people being who they are and being proud of who they are, but I can't support delusional thoughts like that. At that point I wonder if that's where their head is really at or if they are playing at something else.

The issue of biological men playing women's sports and biological women playing men's sports is a wild one because yes biological men are naturally stronger. I won't personally celebrate a biological male beating a biological woman in sports, it's simply not a fair contest in most instances. I really don't care what bathroom you use or how you choose to dress or present yourself. I do me and am more than happy to let you do you. I have enough stress and concern in my daily life to be concerned with somebody elses decisions. I truly feel like many of the worlds problems would be solved if people just minded their own business and stopped trying to KAREN their way into people's space. Worrying about work, bills, family, friends, hobbies occupies most of the mental capacity. Am I lucky to only have those things to worry about? One could make the argument that I am indeed. However, you're never going to get everyone in life to like you or agree with you. Life certainly isn't fair and not everybody plays by the same rules - cue stupidly, insanely, filthy rich billionaires.

My general rule of thumb is to treat everyone like a human being who deserve respect. I don't care if you gay or straight, black or white, trans, intersex, or even not sure what the heck you are yet. If you treat me with respect, then you will get my respect in return, every single time. I'm usually a very laid back, easy going person - so it takes a lot to truly get me angry or upset. If you come at me in a condescending, disrespectful manner, then you should expect to receive the same treatment or my total dismissal as I'm not too interested in the drama. I have friends who belong to many different communities and I get along with all of them. In general, no matter who you are, I like to think that people tend to WANT to get along, to be seen and respected. There will always be bad apples that you will run into - both for and against every issue. I think it's important to recognize that the loudest mouths aren't always representative of a particular issue in it's entirety. They may not even represent a majority and oftentimes they are unable to even maintain an open mind to have a logical discussion on anything that doesn't align 100% with their train of thought. Overall I think we are on the right track and I hope everyone can continue to feel more confident in themselves and maintain a happy life - no matter what that looks like for you.

[Erik.]

I was definitely on the fence about posting anything in here because it's a fine line to walk - but I figure open discussion is never a bad thing.

The only thing I dislike about this current issue are the discussions stemming into teaching sex and gender to children in school. It's hard for me to imagine my child being in elementary school learning about heterosexuality/homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. Just teach my child how to be a productive member of society. Teach them to read, teach them science and math. Teach them about history and reading, while they build their social skills amongst their peers. I'm not interested in some teacher who I don't truly know as a person pushing their views and opinions off on my children. Granted that's not how every school/teacher is, but it does happen. My wife and I are very careful with what family and friends may say around our child. Children are innocent and bigotry starts at home, so we want to do our part to raise a more accepting next generation.

I think it's VERY important to teach kids about sexuality and gender in elementary schools. How are kids going to learn that their body is theirs alone and no stranger can touch them, how are they going to learn about boundaries? If they're abused by someone, how are they going to voice to their parents what happened if they don't know the words? And, as a young kid (from the age of 7 until I entered high school) I used to think there was something wrong with me because I didn't want any attention from girls, and hated when I had to dance with one for example. I liked the popular boy in class a lot, and I would feel a lot of shame. And I have trans friends who wished they would've been taught about their feelings in elementary school, that there is a name for it and that there is help, that they weren't alone in this or crazy... It would've saved them from shitty puberties and irreversible body changes... I am glad children are taught about all these kinds of things nowadays and not left in the dark to fend for themselves.

Edit: whoops forgot to finish my sentence.

[I_royalty_I]

I think it's VERY important to teach kids about sexuality and gender in elementary schools. How are kids going to learn that their body is theirs alone and no stranger can touch them, how are they going to learn about boundaries? As a young kid (from the age of 7 until I entered high school) I used to think there was something wrong with me because I didn't want any attention from girls, and hated when I had to dance with one for example. I liked the popular boy in class a lot, and I would feel a lot of shame. And I have trans friends who wished they would've been taught about their feelings in elementary school, that there is a name for it and that there is help, that they weren't alone in this or crazy... It would've saved them from shitty puberties and irreversible body changes... I am glad children are taught about all these kinds of things nowadays and not left in the dark to fend for themselves.

Edit: whoops forgot to finish my sentence.

I can see your point, based off your own experiences. I disagree with it, but that could perhaps be based off of my own experiences. Back when I was 7, oh man, I can't even remember what I was thinking about but my own body and boys/girls was probably not something I thought about too much. Back then it was the whole "girls have cooties" kinda thing I'm sure. Back then my parents were the ones who taught me stranger danger and that I should not let people touch me in certain spots. There's a difference between that and teaching sexuality and gender, in my opinion. Topics like that are okay by me in high school when kids have a better understanding of the world around them, but I don't think elementary school is the time or place for that. I'd probably be okay with middle school too - I think those years are some of the most awkward and I can see how it could be a benefit. I'd likely want to take a look at the curriculum though to ensure that personal bias isn't coming into play and topics are being discussed objectively. Maybe I've seen one too many videos of teacher I deem shitty, trying to push and pressure kids one way or the other.

[Erik.]

I can see your point, based off your own experiences. I disagree with it, but that could perhaps be based off of my own experiences. Back when I was 7, oh man, I can't even remember what I was thinking about but my own body and boys/girls was probably not something I thought about too much. Back then it was the whole "girls have cooties" kinda thing I'm sure. Back then my parents were the ones who taught me stranger danger and that I should not let people touch me in certain spots. There's a difference between that and teaching sexuality and gender, in my opinion. Topics like that are okay by me in high school when kids have a better understanding of the world around them, but I don't think elementary school is the time or place for that. I'd probably be okay with middle school too - I think those years are some of the most awkward and I can see how it could be a benefit. I'd likely want to take a look at the curriculum though to ensure that personal bias isn't coming into play and topics are being discussed objectively. Maybe I've seen one too many videos of teacher I deem shitty, trying to push and pressure kids one way or the other.

Unfortunately, not every parent teaches their child that. And sometimes parents are the ones touching them... And in my experience children know more than you think, they are often much more educated on certain topics than I expect them to because of their age. Must be the internet. The internet teaches a lot of wrong things though, that's why teachers are important. And I have never seen or heard about teachers pushing or pressuring kids into something they're not. In my belief, that's just an empty fearmongering buzzword created by rightwing politicians who'd love to push us back into the closet.

[I_royalty_I]

Unfortunately, not every parent teaches their child that. And sometimes parents are the ones touching them... And in my experience children know more than you think, they are often much more educated on certain topics than I expect them to because of their age. Must be the internet. The internet teaches a lot of wrong things though, that's why teachers are important. And I have never seen or heard about teachers pushing or pressuring kids into something they're not. In my belief, that's just an empty fearmongering buzzword created by rightwing politicians who'd love to push us back into the closet.

That's actually a fair point. I guess I'm looking at it as a parent who wants nothing but the best for my children - the thought of a parent being the aggressor wasn't even a thought in my head, so I can see your point there. We can both agree that there are some pretty shitty parents out there. I'd like to think that our generation will do better, but wishful thinking doesn't always lead to possible results.
My point on the teachers is definitely more of a fringe/extreme case. My sister is a teacher and I'd trust her with educating my children on anything at all. I have definitely seen numerous videos of teachers openly saying they push certain views onto the kids they teach though - primarily on social media kind of places. It does circle back to my point how a few bad apples can spoil things, but also why I think it's important to be an active parent; review and understand the curriculum and how it will be taught, create a dialogue and get to know the teacher, etc.

[Erik.]

That's actually a fair point. I guess I'm looking at it as a parent who wants nothing but the best for my children - the thought of a parent being the aggressor wasn't even a thought in my head, so I can see your point there. We can both agree that there are some pretty shitty parents out there. I'd like to think that our generation will do better, but wishful thinking doesn't always lead to possible results.
My point on the teachers is definitely more of a fringe/extreme case. My sister is a teacher and I'd trust her with educating my children on anything at all. I have definitely seen numerous videos of teachers openly saying they push certain views onto the kids they teach though - primarily on social media kind of places. It does circle back to my point how a few bad apples can spoil things, but also why I think it's important to be an active parent; review and understand the curriculum and how it will be taught, create a dialogue and get to know the teacher, etc.

Obviously there needs to be supervision on what teachers should teach, but in my country (The NL) that already happens. Don't know about yours! Same goes for teachers who teach bigoted views of course.

[Mothman]

That's actually a fair point. I guess I'm looking at it as a parent who wants nothing but the best for my children - the thought of a parent being the aggressor wasn't even a thought in my head, so I can see your point there. We can both agree that there are some pretty shitty parents out there. I'd like to think that our generation will do better, but wishful thinking doesn't always lead to possible results.
My point on the teachers is definitely more of a fringe/extreme case. My sister is a teacher and I'd trust her with educating my children on anything at all. I have definitely seen numerous videos of teachers openly saying they push certain views onto the kids they teach though - primarily on social media kind of places. It does circle back to my point how a few bad apples can spoil things, but also why I think it's important to be an active parent; review and understand the curriculum and how it will be taught, create a dialogue and get to know the teacher, etc.

I'm a high school teacher also, and if you have any questions about the education system from the view of a trans/nonbinary teacher I can provide some info

It's a lot like any other issue, just like you said... there are good and bad in every profession. If you ask teachers for our cirriculum, become involved, ask polite questions, etc. no one will be mad at that. A lot of social media teachers are so focused on getting validation and attention that they lose sight of what they are in the job for, which are the ones you're seeing.

In addition, I have much more to fear from students and parents who get violent and rude regarding myself or trans students than I do any student who gets frustrated at being called the wrong name or pronouns. I have a pride flag hung in my room not to push anything on students or indoctrinate them, but to allow students who need to see they are welcome in my classroom to feel safe.

Homophobic students have threatened me, spit on me, tried to get me fired, said they would burn down my house and kill my pets, etc. because of that flag. LGBTQ students have cried in relief that they could be themselves in my classroom. It's something that needs to be taught in the sense that we as a society need to learn to respect others even if we don't understand them.

that got a little rambly but hopefully that makes sense haha!

[Crow]

Of course not! But if you were denied jobs, health care, entrance, hated on or discriminated in any other way just for being a woman I assume you would. We want the same human rights, and the same amount of respect. We can only achieve this by being vocal and visible, "in your face" I guess.That's not an obsession with sexuality or "intense performance" (not sure what you mean by this, Gay Pride I'm assuming?), that's standing up for yourself and saying we're not ashamed to be who we are.

Yeah, you don't have to be "in your face" about it. I have been denied jobs, hated on, and discriminated against for being a woman and for my sexuality. It sucks for sure, but not enough for me to go around with my top off demanding better treatment.

But hey, that's just me. I've certainly met women who feel differently.

I never said I'm against trans rights lol. Literally my brother is trans. He's not ashamed of who he is. He also doesn't feel the need to showcase it or blast it out to every stranger in front of him. He just exists as I do. Normal. Living life. It doesn't matter what you are, you're never going to be completely accepted by everyone. That's just reality. Everyone has their own hardships.

[Erik.]

Yeah, you don't have to be "in your face" about it. I have been denied jobs, hated on, and discriminated against for being a woman and for my sexuality. It sucks for sure, but not enough for me to go around with my top off demanding better treatment.

But hey, that's just me. I've certainly met women who feel differently.

I never said I'm against trans rights lol. Literally my brother is trans. He's not ashamed of who he is. He also doesn't feel the need to showcase it or blast it out to every stranger in front of him. He just exists as I do. Normal. Living life. It doesn't matter what you are, you're never going to be completely accepted by everyone. That's just reality. Everyone has their own hardships.

I didn't say you were! Sorry if it came off that way.