and when you say "change the views of other people" you mean.. changing their views away from discriminating against or acting violently toward trans people? I would love it if there was no need for a "trans movement" because everyone could mind their business and behave nicely, but unfortunately that's not the situation we're in. trans people can have all the love and belief and confidence and peace within themselves in the world, but that's not enough to just like, ~bounce back~ from systemic, structural, constant transphobia.
if you mean change other peoples' views of like, what their own gender is via transitioning or dressing how they like, that's uhhh abhorrent. what do cis people lose by fostering a world where all people can present how they feel and dress how they like? let them live. transness as a "deep seated issue" only makes sense in the cisnormative social construction of the western world, but gender isn't that simple. that binary, genitals-based view of gender rose to prominence through puritan christianity as a mechanism of control, and we just like.. don't have to live like that.
---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------
so gender and romance/relationships, at an extremely G-rated level, are like, embedded in every facet of children's lives. it's extremely harmful to keep that to just straight and just cis, for several reasons:
1. the way to end bigotry is familiarity. in a diverse world, why shelter kids from diversity? what if a classmate has same sex parents? isn't it better for everyone if that's not a shock because the other kids already know gay people exist? teachers aren't out there trying to recruit for the queer community - the concept "sometimes people who we thought were girls turn out to be boys" (and vice versa) isn't going to make anybody trans, it's just going to make them a) feel safe if that is something they're already feeling, and b) not freak out if/when they meet a trans person down the line.
2. queer people start as queer kids - without that information they feel alone and broken but don't know why. seeing the future that's expected of you and knowing it won't fit but not having an alternative can make you feel like there is no future. I knew I didn't want a husband long before I could articulate that I was gay, and the gap between that and realizing I could maybe build a life with another woman one day was like.. almost 10 years? spending that long as a child/teen with like, contextless, secret, underlying knowledge that I'd end up alone for sure fucked me up in ways I'm still unpacking - that kind of damage is so avoidable! not in a sex talk, not even on an individual basis - if Arthur or Lizzie McGuire or the kids in a couple of my picture books had had two moms, I'd have understood that that's a way it's possible to live. (media representation is important too, and it's getting better, but it's still something you have to seek out rather than like, just a way some of the Disney protagonists are. schools are a good equalizer to make sure as many kids as possible see the full range of ways to be a person)
3. it's literally just manners. if there's a non binary person in your life, does it make more sense to dodge questions about why grown-ups keep saying "they" and have your children misgender them? or to say "some people aren't boys or girls" and "a lot of words only have boy versions and girl versions, so it can get tricky: So-and-so likes to be called ____"
lastly, that child sounds either neurodivergent and in need of better guidance, or spoiled/entitled and playing with control in a way that makes a mockery of genderqueerness - either way, the school board is not handling that well, and that is not the result of conveying this kind of information to kids in a normal way.
Last edited by Druid; 11-01-2023 at 11:25 PM.
thank you for the gay rights peo ♥ @honeycomb ♥
I think it is more important now to teach sexuality in elementary school than it was 25+ years ago because some girls are starting their periods even younger nowadays, there are 3rd 4th and 5th graders getting their periods. Meaning they can get pregnant. If there's a possibility of pregnancy, having a really basic sex-ed class is important. Ideally the parents would be teaching this stuff, but not all parents are attentive if we're being realistic, especially with ipads and such these days.
Sex ed classes are also important to stop the spread of diseases like HPV, HIV, etc. This applies to heterosexual / homosexual acts so both need to be discussed to prevent bad consequences.
I had a health class in high school that didn't talk about homosexual sex at all. One day a boy asked something like "what does it mean when there are gay people?" because it was literally missing from our curriculum and he was probably curious. The teacher responded "Oh, Gay is just a choice", and the student replied "oh! ok!" and nodded his head and wrote that down.
This was a while ago because i'm a millennial, but i'm just using it as an example of how kids and teenagers ask a lot of questions if stuff is missing from the curriculum, and then because the teachers weren't prepared they get bad information. If a kid asks what transgender is because they saw it on youtube or whatever, it's probably important for the teacher to have a simple but correct answer.
I think teaching about sexuality and gender early would also stop bullying! When I was a teenager, guys who wore feminine clothing to school got bullied really badly. If kids are educated on how some people are different than them earlier on, maybe they won't grow up to bully different people.
That's my thoughts on that!
@(you need an account to see links) - I wanted to say thank you for such a thoughtful and informative reply earlier this week! I need to sit and write a proper reply when I have some time this weekend but wanted to say, I really appreciate your candor and willingness to share your perspective and it's gotten me doing some self-introspection and realizing how privileged I've been without realizing it, and how that's been influencing my outlook ("why can't everyone just scoff at gender stereotypes? I do, it's easy!" says someone who never had to learn to break free of assigned and constantly reinforced expectations).
Other quick thing I want to say, I've always been skeptical of children having hormone treatments. This thread taught me that some cis women are prescribed blockers for testosterone and it is a very normal, accepted practice. I never knew, and I realize I was wrong in thinking blockers are this universally risky process for children. There's a whole lot more gray area to it than I had known and I'm glad to have learned it from you guys.
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The long and short of it is, the only major health risk is loss of bone density, but if the patient takes calcium supplement and the doctors closely monitor bone density growth with regular scans, the risk is fairly mitigated. If the patient got scanned every 6 months for example, and one scan showed bad bone density growth, the doctors at that point can just pull the patient off the medication.
I think the movement and awareness it is productive to society as a whole but struggles under the conditions of modern pop culture and social media. Contemporary society has sort of been building up to these movements about sexuality if you look at the last few decades of sex in media (big claim, no evidence, no I will not provide any lol). Unfortunately from my perspective, sometimes it feels like if you're not taking something and making it exclusively about trans people, then others will get upset. Please don't think I'm some asshole who gets mad at Cheerios commericals featuring interracial families or thinks theres "too many purple haired black lesbians in videogames". The phenomena I'm referring to is similar to BLM (used to be consistent but then Twitterlites), Ukraine, Free Palestine (this one is a bit more consistent) where people get really passionate about something they didn't care about before but algorithms have made their focus for the next few weeks or months but their time being an ally is finite. It's super annoying how every single social movement is seen as just some trend now. I do my part by my making my classroom and afterschool club a safe place for LBGTQ students.
the fact that this is even "up for debate" is laughable in my opinion. a movement that involves the liberation of an oppressed group of people who have existed since the dawn of humanity, that 99.9% of the time doesn't directly affect cis people (like myself) in ANY WAY shouldn't even be a question. trans rights are human rights, end of story.
tHe TrAnS dEbAtE is just the new "ooooh scary" thing right wing bigots and main stream media is using to conquer and divide us. it's giving.... the 1970s "gay debate" lmao. anita bryant eat your heart out *eyeroll*
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