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Thread: The usage of the word "queer"

  1. #1
    Druid's Avatar
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    The usage of the word "queer"

    I feel like this is often a central topic in LGBT+ community in-fighting, and I'm interested in hearing from people on the other side of the debate in more depth: should the word "queer" be widely used, or should it be treated as a slur and put away?

    I'm pretty staunchly on the side of using it. The main arguments I hear against are that it was originally a negative term, and that lots of people have trauma from bigots using it against them. While those things are both true, my main counterpoint is that's also the case for pretty much every other word we have. Why doesn't "gay" spark the same controversy? Of course one-on-one any individual has the right to say they're uncomfortable with certain language, but as a Very Online Gay Person I frequently run into people who are offended that "the queer community" is the like, official term, and calling for it to be retired completely from things like academic papers. But yeah I from the bottom of my heart don't understand what makes it more of a problem than anything else - unfortunately as a minority with a history of oppression, literally all language to describe us has been said with hate (and most of it was created for that purpose).

    I was talking about this with a few friends the other day and one of them guessed maybe etymology, since common knowledge is that queer's original meaning was "strange or odd" while gay's was "joyful and carefree". We looked into the history of the words a bit more (because tbh it felt a little off that a positive word was used, given the stance of the time) & found the (you need an account to see links), which actually makes a lot more sense. "Gay" first appeared in English around the 12th century, when it did indeed mean the happy thing. But then in the17th century it shifted to be more like "addicted to pleasures and dissipations" & was associated with immorality. Then in the 19th century that became "promiscuous" but in a straight way - for women it meant prostitute, for men it meant "sleeps with a lot of women (often prostitutes)" - and to "gay it" was to have (straight) sex. While these other meanings were in conjunction with the original, that evolution toward "perverse" definitely explains how it came to mean homosexual in the 1920s/30s. Bit of a tangent, but I thought that was super interesting.

    Anyway regardless, individual trauma cannot dictate universal language. Homophobia and transphobia are disgusting, and unfortunately for the time being anyway are something every LGBT+ person has had to face. But those attacks are made with every word we have. The most common argument I see, and the one that's kind of treated like a mic drop, is that no one who's ever had "fuckin' queer" screamed at them should have to interact with that word ever again. But like, not everyone's attackers use the same vocabulary? You could swap in any of the other "official" words old/common enough that bigots know them (gay, lesbian, homosexual/just homo, bisexual, transgender), you could swap in the slurs (dyke, fag, tranny... which are a whole other conversation, imo the fundamental difference between them & queer is that they're all slang and therefore not necessary language in the same way), or you could swap in a whole array of words that are harmless in other contexts but harmful here (fairy, butch, pansy, fruit, poof, man/woman depending what stings)... there are people with trauma around every one of those, but there's just no way we can, or should, eliminate all of them. Personally the one I had thrown at me with most venom was "lesbian", and tbh I still don't really use it and just call myself gay (probably partly because of that trauma, though also partly bc I don't love that it's the only orientation split by gender, or that it's a noun? feels really othering). It is of course up to me whether or not I use it to describe myself, but if I were to jump from there to insisting it is not to be used to describe me at all that wouldn't be reasonable or realistic. I am a woman who's exclusively attracted to women - there's a word for that, it's lesbian, whether I love it or not that's a word that's going to come up in my life.

    Beyond that, an umbrella term for "not cis/het" is a necessary piece of language. Yeah we have the acronym, but it's borderline impossible to include every possible identity when listing them individually as different letters. The longer it gets the more people get lost trying to figure out what each letter is, the shorter it's kept the more exclusionary it is. LGBT+ is reasonably standard, with the plus sign implying everything else is included too, but it still feels kinda like ranking things. And the vagueness serves a purpose outside of group inclusion - on an individual level, having a word to use for "I don't know what I am - or I don't want you to know specifically what I am - but it's not cis/het" is honestly vital. It can mean gender, orientation, or both, it can be fluid, and it doesn't need to be pinned down further.

    I know there are lots of people on the other side of this debate, and I'd love to hear some counterpoints! It's a discussion I've seen mostly online at a point where it's so heightened that no one is actually explaining themselves, and all my irl friends are on the same side of it as me, so it's a topic I'm definitely interested to engage with more. Happy Pride, and remember to keep it respectful and civil!
    Last edited by Druid; 06-14-2022 at 05:47 PM. Reason: grammar fix

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  3. #2
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    I'm also staunchly on the side of using it 😎 For me, it encompasses my non-heterosexual sexuality and also any gender weirdness I might be feeling. I can't be bothered with trying to label myself agender or bigender or genderneutral or - yeah. So... queer sums that all up pretty nicely.

    From what I've seen as an Extremely Online person in fandom circles, for some reason, it's mostly the younger generations who want to argue that it's a slur and to remove it from the lexicon. My circle of friends (30+) almost all identify as "queer." Because it's a great descriptor for all sorts of sexual identity and gender weirdness!

    The younger kids seem to recognize it as a slur, which is odd, because... I haven't heard queer used as a slur since like, the early 2000s. Faggot? Dyke? Tranny? Yeah. But queer? Nah. It's not rude enough for people these days, I think.

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  5. #3
    overthink.exe
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    I personally find 'queer' to be the best word to describe my experiences as a whole. I don't want to microlable every aspect of how I experience gender/attraction/and so on, especially because it's so fluid. I wrote this earlier and came back and it seems like Flor has had a similar experience, and I think that's true for a lot of my peers. In general I find umbrella terms really useful, and also have it encompassed into a word instead of an ever-changing-acronym-inevitably-exclusive acronym. I like it, it's comfortable.

    Also like Flor, I haven't really seen it much as an insult in a very long time. I've definitely seen fag and dyke used a lot, and to me those seem like words where it might be more of a personal decision of whether to reclaim or how, but those aren't really my words to speak on.



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    Kyo (Nov 13 2020)

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Druid View Post
    Anyway regardless, individual trauma cannot dictate universal language.
    This sums up my view nicely. By all means, if an individual asked me not to use it around them because they found the word triggering, I'd do my best to accommodate them specifically. It's if they want me to never use it that I have an issue. I have very bad panic attacks triggered by the sound of a flyswat. If it's a situation where can, I ask people not to use them around me - but I don't expect everyone I may ever come in contact with to throw their flyswats in the trash.

    Same with the f-slur and it/its pronouns - seeing someone use them feels like a slap in the face every time because I have such deep-rooted childhood trauma with them. But I have to remind myself that for the person using them to identify themselves, it's a liberating thing, and part of supporting this community I'm a part of is respecting that.

    And, on a less serious note... Queer is just so convenient. I identify with like, five+ labels, I'm not gonna list em all out when Queer is a comfy word to lean back on (for me personally.) And I've just always loved the word, even before I realized I was it - I read a lot of older novels as a kid and was always fascinated by the antiquated words and phrases. The day I realized I could genuinely call myself queer was the day I began to feel most comfortable with myself, like everything clicked in place.


    It is of course up to me whether or not I use it to describe myself, but if I were to jump from there to insisting it is not to be used to describe me at all that wouldn't be reasonable or realistic. I am a woman who's exclusively attracted to women - there's a word for that, it's lesbian, whether I love it or not that's a word that's going to come up in my life.
    I am in this exact same boat by the way! In my household many terms were used as slurs. I have a hard time just typing or saying the word lesbian, and though technically, yeah, that's what I am, I always go with wlw/sapphic/gay to describe myself.


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    Admittedly the first time I heard someone using it to self describe it rubbed me the wrong way because it had been a slur for a much larger part of my life. However, I think the practice of reclaiming the words used to hurt you is powerful and important. Ultimately I think if someone asks you not to refer to them as that the respectful thing to do is to call them by their chosen identifiers obviously, but it's a little entitiled to think you have the right to tell someone what they can and cannot call themselves. That said if it's really hurting someone I care about to even hear the term I'd probably drop it around them out of love. Queer is a good nonspecific term that I think is really helpful for people who don't find they fit in a single box.
    Last edited by Jackalope; 06-14-2022 at 11:41 PM.



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  11. #6
    overthink.exe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    Queer is a good nonspecific term that I think is really helpful for people who don't find they fit in a single box.

    Yes! The word queer is what helped me to actually identify as queer. Kind of going back to what I said about microlables, none of them ever really seemed to fit right and the ones that did were such small facets of me that I didn't feel the need to label at all or had aspects I didn't fully connect with, so it all felt very fragmented. Hell, even my self-described pronouns on here is very representative of my somewhat ambivalent relationship to gender and I feel like "queer" covers that more than any label ever could.



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    Kyo (Nov 13 2020)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kittyray View Post
    Yes! The word queer is what helped me to actually identify as queer. Kind of going back to what I said about microlables, none of them ever really seemed to fit right and the ones that did were such small facets of me that I didn't feel the need to label at all or had aspects I didn't fully connect with, so it all felt very fragmented. Hell, even my self-described pronouns on here is very representative of my somewhat ambivalent relationship to gender and I feel like "queer" covers that more than any label ever could.
    Yes! It also adds a degree of privacy while still identifying yourself as a member of the alphabet mafia. Like, not everyone needs to know the specfics of what I'm into or not into... just... I'm not cishet.



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    i think everyone should be able to use what they feel best encapsulates their experience, whether that's queer or another term personally i don't use it for myself since i just eschew labels in general even though i'm lgbt.

    there was a time in college a couple years ago i was a little bothered by events and clubs with "queer" in the name because it wasn't necessarily something i felt like i wanted to call myself by attending (and i had friends who were firmly against the term) but i don't as feel strongly about it now. like we have much bigger fish to fry, picking at each other's identities/other pride discourse does nothing useful lol

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    Queer is the word I use to describe myself, and for me personally it's the best word to describe not being heteronormative but not entirely wanting to put myself into another box. Queer for me is a good catch all - dig down and there's a lot more to me, but queer covers it as a point of identification. I also appreciate reclaiming the slur - the less words people can use against us, the better. I am however very respectful of older generations who may find the word painful.

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    Like it has been said before, I just prefer queer over trying to find out this perfect (probably inexistent) label that describes me.
    But English is also not my first language, so I probably can't understand a lot of nuances about this specific debate of using vs not-using this term.

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