Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: How was your history learning in school?

  1. #1
    Sailor Moan's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    4
    Userbars
    1
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked
    5/5
    Mentioned
    4 times
    Time Online
    7h 7m
    Avg. Time Online
    N/A

    How was your history learning in school?

    Ok, guys, again, I'm sorry if my English isn't good enough, but I hope I can make myself clear. :-)

    So, I'm from Am�rica Latina (Latin America), and I always find it funny when I see people from different places talking about historical facts because it becomes very obvious that, in some countries, things are taught by the (once) colony perspective and, in others, by the colonizer.

    In the last two years, I've seen a lot of discussions between Brazilians and Portuguese because of it. In one country, they show and explain how exploratory and humiliating imperialism was, while, in the other, people are taught that their country did wonderful things to the colony.

    Tell me from which country you are (if you want to!), and if you think that your history learning was based on one of these visions, on both, or if you think that it was exempt from any perspective!


  2. #2
    ozfe's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    56
    Userbars
    2
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked
    26/23
    DL/UL
    23/0
    Mentioned
    21 times
    Time Online
    16d 17m
    Avg. Time Online
    5m
    In Australia, the high school history teaching is approximately as follows (at least it was ~10 years ago):

    Year 7: first homosapiens, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Romans
    Year 8: mostly England (Elizabeth/Tudors etc.) and a bit about The Renaissance

    Nobody really cared about any of the above.

    In Australia, we definitely are not taught that wonderful things happened in the British colonies, rather the exact opposite. There is a lot of teaching about how poorly the Indigenous Australians were treated by the invaders and the Stolen Generation. At the exact time I was learning this, the Australian government announced an official apology.

    Year 9: Australian history (invasion by the British), Australian Gold Rush, WWI, WWII, Vietnam war
    Year 10: More on WWII, Cold War

    We definitely didn't learn much South American over here, maybe just a bit on Castro/Cuba.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to ozfe For This Useful Post:

    nataurs (10-21-2020)

  4. #3
    Koto's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2019
    Posts
    674
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    43
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked
    2,159/571
    DL/UL
    17/0
    Mentioned
    257 times
    Time Online
    38d 23h 49m
    Avg. Time Online
    31m
    This is such an interesting discussion - I actually have a degree in History, so I love talking about the nuances and some of the issues around "true" history.

    We hear a lot about bias in journalism, but because for so long history was almost exclusively written and distributed by colonizers history's bias seems to be glossed over a lot. I specialized in East Asian social and military history and it was so difficult to find reliable Western historical sources that didn't stink of Orientalism or condescension. On the other hand, many modern Chinese sources elevated history to something that it wasn't and went very far in the opposite direction in terms of exaggerating certain events and their outcomes. particularly around Maoism, but also parts of ancient tradition that are still venerated. The parts of history that I focused on (largely in China and Japan) didn't have a colonial experience (but rather imposed their own versions of it throughout history) so it's a little different.

    However, I also studied Indian history extensively, and lived there for many years, and it is wild to have experienced colonialism that runs so deeply in an education system. We were still being taught that the British somehow helped India in the early 00's - a maddening and strange thing too be teaching white children in a country that is still suffering from deeply-rooted systemic damage thanks to 300 years of colonial devastation. I remember being horrified that this was the narrative that was somehow being taught in a national curriculum at 13, so there's that.

    My take-away from all my experience - history is often changed to fit the narrative, so it's up to us to be sure that we look at and carefully consider all the versions offered critically.

    Edit:

    I also spent like 7 years on and off studying the World Wars. They were a horrific waste of life, and the narrative around them is largely skewed and weird to say the least. Don't read anything by an American is my take-away from THAT.
    Last edited by Koto; 10-20-2020 at 10:52 PM.


    userbar by the delightful (you need an account to see links)



  5. #4
    overthink.exe
    kittyray's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5,623
    Pronouns
    she/they
    Userbars
    117
    Thanks
    13,412
    Thanked
    18,704/5,242
    DL/UL
    40/0
    Mentioned
    1,155 times
    Time Online
    550d 23h 7m
    Avg. Time Online
    3h 26m
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto View Post

    I also spent like 7 years on and off studying the World Wars. They were a horrific waste of life, and the narrative around them is largely skewed and weird to say the least. Don't read anything by an American is my take-away from THAT.
    I came to this thread to comment on a tweet I've seen going around about how fucked up it is that Americans (and a lot of other places) are taught that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified because it forced a quicker end to the war. I try to not spend too much time on political threads on here, but seriously what the actual fuck was that.

    The school I went to growing up has recently faced a lot of criticism about the lens through which history was taught, and there have been a lot of alumni demands to really dig deep and re-evaluate it. Not sure what the status on that is.



    thanks stardust for base Thanks Sugarbee Thanks Wooloo
    Kyo (Nov 13 2020)

    thanks honeycomb
    and hearts! <3
    +Zenitsu

    THANK YOU FAB



  6. #5
    Katie Mama Bear's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,510
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    62
    Thanks
    2,478
    Thanked
    7,385/2,232
    DL/UL
    172/0
    Mentioned
    657 times
    Time Online
    182d 5h 28m
    Avg. Time Online
    1h 16m
    Quote Originally Posted by ozfe View Post
    In Australia, the high school history teaching is approximately as follows (at least it was ~10 years ago):

    Year 7: first homosapiens, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Romans
    Year 8: mostly England (Elizabeth/Tudors etc.) and a bit about The Renaissance

    Nobody really cared about any of the above.

    In Australia, we definitely are not taught that wonderful things happened in the British colonies, rather the exact opposite. There is a lot of teaching about how poorly the Indigenous Australians were treated by the invaders and the Stolen Generation. At the exact time I was learning this, the Australian government announced an official apology.

    Year 9: Australian history (invasion by the British), Australian Gold Rush, WWI, WWII, Vietnam war
    Year 10: More on WWII, Cold War

    We definitely didn't learn much South American over here, maybe just a bit on Castro/Cuba.
    I'm the HOD of English and HASS in a Qld high school; this is still mostly true in 2020. The Australian Curriculum mean they have less history than they used to, as they also need to fit Geography, Civics and Citizenship into the same subject time slot. For history, at least here, 7s do Ancient China; 8s do Colonisation and Knights vs Samurai; 9s do the Industrial revolution and WWI; 10s do WWII and recent Australian issues (Morcombe, Palm Island, etc.). There's flexibility in what topics schools want to do though, so there's a choose your own adventure aspect to it.

    I agree that there is definitely not a glamorisation of Australia's colonial past. The ugliness of Australia's colonisation is definitely part of the history curriculum, and we also explore it through the English curriculum as well, such as analysing representations of Indigenous experience in texts like Rabbit Proof Fence.

    In the OP, the example is the education received by two countries. How the colonisation of Australia features in the British education system is unknown to me. Given the reach of the British Empire at her peak, I can't imagine they get much depth in specifics of many colonial experiences.

  7. #6
    Druid's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    589
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    32
    Thanks
    1,143
    Thanked
    2,580/509
    Mentioned
    87 times
    Time Online
    44d 4h 33m
    Avg. Time Online
    42m
    I’m in Canada. I don’t remember very well, but I feel like there was kind of a half-hearted attempt to learn about indigenous culture? But like a supremely “by and for colonizers” one. In elementary stuff like dream catchers and Turtle Island and longhouses were mentioned, but with kind of the same energy as ancient mythology from Rome or Greece. The genocide by England and France was absolutely glossed over as “pioneers discovering the land”, and pioneers themselves were a big glorified subject.

    I remember high school being almost exclusively about the industrial revolution and world wars? Absolutely nothing on modern tensions. Indigenous people have status cards that make them exempt from paying taxes (which like personally I’d say I fucking hope so) and a lot of settlers really resent that which I feel like could maybe be helped if the lead up to it were taught more thoroughly in schools, but nope. Starlight tours were never mentioned, residential schools were I think? but the implication was that it was waaaay longer ago than it was, nothing about powwow regalia and fancy dancing and the elements of culture that are still upheld.. it’s disappointing but not surprising, native people are treated like TRASH in Canada.

    Right now in Nova Scotia there’s what’s being described as “tension” between Mi’kmaq fishermen who are allowed to trap lobster out of season, which along with no taxes is one of few concessions made in what’s literally called the PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP treaty of 1752 which itself is insulting af, and commercial fishermen who are jealous. Except it isn’t “tension” it’s constant physical assault against native people, deliberate poisoning of their lobster (proving it was never about protecting the lobster), and just generally an extremely blatant show of racism and violence. They’re allowed to fish offseason because it’s a small number of people providing specifically for their tribe in a way that they’re lived off the land for centuries, vs the commercial guys trying to get tons of lobster and make tons of profit. Mi’kmaq fishing is the equivalent of a small fraction of commercial fishing, and has been stated by scientists to not be a threat to conservation. I’m actually super curious about whether high schools are getting into this and what they’re saying to their students.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Druid For This Useful Post:

    Baelia (10-30-2020),Koto (10-21-2020)

  9. #7
    TsUNaMy WaVe's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    3,397
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    102
    Thanks
    5,026
    Thanked
    7,118/2,413
    DL/UL
    47/0
    Mentioned
    434 times
    Time Online
    64d 3h N/A
    Avg. Time Online
    26m
    I'm from Israel.
    I don't remember most of my history classes, tbh, only the last two years (mostly because those were the years we had to take national exams). I remember we went through how the nationalism movement started and the industrial revolution. A little bit about WWI. Then a lot about WWII, mostly in the aspect of the holocaust (but also about the actual war). There were some more smaller topics but I don't remember them well enough and I don't want to say things without knowing what I'm talking about.
    Schools also go through the history of Israel a lot, mainly all the wars (the country is pretty young, only ~70 years, so it's "easy" to go through everything) and how the state came to be. But I'm not 100% sure if it's through history class or some other kind of class lol.

    I don't remember any obvious bias in the general history section. Sure, glossing over WWII and mostly look at it from the Jewish point of view is probably not the way to teach about the actual war, but I can see why that's the "important" aspect, since it was a huge reason for why Israel came to be as a state.
    The history of Israel part is kinda biased I guess, but since everything about it is controversial from the first day and still is today, and it's everywhere in public spaces, I'm not sure how much it's really affecting people mind about the matter.

    Regarding the topic of colonisation though, I can say that the British time as the ruler of the area is looked upon pretty negatively. No idea how they teach it on the British side, if at all lol.
    Last edited by TsUNaMy WaVe; 10-21-2020 at 03:30 AM.

    (you need an account to see links)




    (you need an account to see links) || (you need an account to see links)
    I̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶k̶a̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶r̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶!̶ I GOT IT!!!

  10. #8
    Koto's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2019
    Posts
    674
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    43
    Thanks
    657
    Thanked
    2,159/571
    DL/UL
    17/0
    Mentioned
    257 times
    Time Online
    38d 23h 49m
    Avg. Time Online
    31m
    Quote Originally Posted by Druid View Post
    I’m in Canada. I don’t remember very well, but I feel like there was kind of a half-hearted attempt to learn about indigenous culture? But like a supremely “by and for colonizers” one. In elementary stuff like dream catchers and Turtle Island and longhouses were mentioned, but with kind of the same energy as ancient mythology from Rome or Greece. The genocide by England and France was absolutely glossed over as “pioneers discovering the land”, and pioneers themselves were a big glorified subject.

    I remember high school being almost exclusively about the industrial revolution and world wars? Absolutely nothing on modern tensions. Indigenous people have status cards that make them exempt from paying taxes (which like personally I’d say I fucking hope so) and a lot of settlers really resent that which I feel like could maybe be helped if the lead up to it were taught more thoroughly in schools, but nope. Starlight tours were never mentioned, residential schools were I think? but the implication was that it was waaaay longer ago than it was, nothing about powwow regalia and fancy dancing and the elements of culture that are still upheld.. it’s disappointing but not surprising, native people are treated like TRASH in Canada.

    Right now in Nova Scotia there’s what’s being described as “tension” between Mi’kmaq fishermen who are allowed to trap lobster out of season, which along with no taxes is one of few concessions made in what’s literally called the PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP treaty of 1752 which itself is insulting af, and commercial fishermen who are jealous. Except it isn’t “tension” it’s constant physical assault against native people, deliberate poisoning of their lobster (proving it was never about protecting the lobster), and just generally an extremely blatant show of racism and violence. They’re allowed to fish offseason because it’s a small number of people providing specifically for their tribe in a way that they’re lived off the land for centuries, vs the commercial guys trying to get tons of lobster and make tons of profit. Mi’kmaq fishing is the equivalent of a small fraction of commercial fishing, and has been stated by scientists to not be a threat to conservation. I’m actually super curious about whether high schools are getting into this and what they’re saying to their students.
    As a fellow Canadian, I feel this a LOT. I ended up taking some Canadian history at university and that was the first time I did a deep-dive in how messed up the land theft process had been from the start and being hit with the fact that the last residential school closed in 1996.

    I was lucky and had a truly wonderful history teacher in high school and we actually did a lot of modern-day events, but there wasn't any major upheavals at the time, so it was a little different. I've been watching everything happening in Nova Scotia with horror and sadness, but not surprise. Racism is deeply rooted here as well, despite what national narrative would have anyone else believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by kittyray View Post
    I came to this thread to comment on a tweet I've seen going around about how fucked up it is that Americans (and a lot of other places) are taught that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified because it forced a quicker end to the war. I try to not spend too much time on political threads on here, but seriously what the actual fuck was that.

    The school I went to growing up has recently faced a lot of criticism about the lens through which history was taught, and there have been a lot of alumni demands to really dig deep and re-evaluate it. Not sure what the status on that is.
    Japan committed plenty of their own atrocities that are not just glossed over but omitted outright in their education (and is a point of contention between Japan and many East and South Asian countries to this day), but I found that the American narrative wasn't weird just about Japan and everything that happened at the end of the war but in Europe as well??? It's just... very weird.


    userbar by the delightful (you need an account to see links)



  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Koto For This Useful Post:

    Druid (10-21-2020),kittyray (10-21-2020)

  12. #9
    cornishwall's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    212
    Userbars
    16
    Thanks
    995
    Thanked
    561/159
    DL/UL
    19/0
    Mentioned
    14 times
    Time Online
    25d 20h 23m
    Avg. Time Online
    23m
    American here. My primary school history education consisted of heavily whitewashed Native education around Thanksgiving, learning the geography and light coverage of the Constitution of the country in 4th grade, history and geography of Egypt, Rome, and Greece in 5th grade, ancient history and geography of Asia, mostly Chino-centric. Middle school was pretty much only US history, civics, geography, and citizenship crammed into a daily 45 minute time slot for two years. I think it was my first exposure to WWII as more than America saved the world.

    In high school I started out with a class that went back to the ideas in Plato's Republic with a little about Athenian government, then I think we skipped to the Magna Carta and worked our way to the Cuban Missile Crisis through a western lens. One year my history class was an intro to economics/financial literacy class? My last history class was US history again, which glossed over the first 10,000 years of indigenous history in a month, then spent 8~9 months on the Columbian exchange through the Civil Rights Act on 1964 with a heavy focus on civil rights and that systemic discrimination has been "eliminated" by equal rights laws.

    My high school did offer more electives like European History I and II, US government and politics, US political system, Law and Justice, and Anthropological Studies in Extremism. I didn't take any of those electives, as you could only fit one or two into a regular course schedule in the last two years of high school, and history has never been my main interest.

    I'll also say that each state gets to set its own curriculum and course requirements, and my parents spent a nontrivial amount of money to send me to some of the best rated schools in the area, so most American you meet might have vastly different understandings of this country's history than my own.
    Last edited by cornishwall; 10-21-2020 at 12:12 PM.

  13. #10
    Druid's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    589
    Pronouns
    she/her
    Userbars
    32
    Thanks
    1,143
    Thanked
    2,580/509
    Mentioned
    87 times
    Time Online
    44d 4h 33m
    Avg. Time Online
    42m
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto View Post
    As a fellow Canadian, I feel this a LOT. I ended up taking some Canadian history at university and that was the first time I did a deep-dive in how messed up the land theft process had been from the start and being hit with the fact that the last residential school closed in 1996.
    Riiiight it’s so grim. And starlight tours were happening in the early 2000s, and the ongoing complete epidemic of MMIW, and there’s that video from LESS THAN A MONTH AGO of Quebec hospital workers taunting an indigenous woman as she literally dies.. every now and then stuff like this makes headlines but mostly it just kind of happens. But yeah according to schools we all sat down to Thanksgiving dinner and lived happily ever after

    If you look up Wiidaaseh on spotify/apple music his song Freezing Deaths is from the perspective of Neil Stonechild. Language/content warning but it’s pretty solid

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •