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Thread: FR programs/scripts?

  1. #21

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    I can give a go at it, I've done similar things before -- once for my own convenience in creating graphics for a site I just took a week to manually save every single image, organized by type and name, so I wouldn't have to go fetch them later. FR's image base is far, far larger (it is intimidating to even try to consider breaking that thing down,) but it's not an impossible task to gather all the data -- it's only the tedium that makes it seem unwieldy! And in the meantime, saving the captchas will help, too, I think -- at least to determine if they really are generated dynamically or if there is a specific pool of them that the site draws from.

    I think... organizing a space to save them all in advance might help. Maybe a shared dropbox or something? I honestly have no idea how to go about that things, though I know some people I could ask about it.

    Ideally finding a way to pull and save the images from FR automatically would be best for both time and everyone's sanity, but that's proving far harder than I anticipated. FR's dragon image URLs (at least in the scryshop) are listed as the following,
    Which you would think would make it easy to change from one image to the next by simply changing the URL! But for some asinine reason, they've made the authorization code for each image different -- I used a text comparison tool just now for the basic/maize/adult/common-eyed Banescales, with the only difference being the sex of the dragon. "&gender=" changes from 1 to 0, as you'd expect, but so does the "&auth=" code. For the male it's "691fbc470fb0913de098734f6129bb11535e4498" and for the female it's "89a1d2b8a8b4cb0c79f09b67e387d44d8bbc5ac8". Because of this, just grabbing images from the server (that is, avoiding the scryshop,) doesn't seem like it will be feasible.

    ... I could make a forum game equivalent of dragon telephone and we could get people to eventually post an iteration of every single dragon combination for us, but it would probably take ages. xD

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    I'm taking this captcha personally. There is a fae in here. This more than anything else is why I want the capcha system they have to get cracked. :/
    Last edited by anagram22; 01-02-2020 at 03:04 AM. Reason: added the worst image i've ever seen

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  3. #22
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    Not to be a downer (realistic not pessimistic I promise) but half of why I personally can't stand the captchas is not only is it asinine Same-Color-Dragon-in-Obscure-Spot but those dragons half the time are clothed, almost as if they're taken off the "Random Dragon" front page. Some are naked, or have one or two apparel items on them, some are so disguised I click the harpy in a vain attempt to guess at a dragon.

    I can only hope these are static images and not procedurally generated depending on the player. I don't personally think I've seen repeats but I haven't thus far paid attention when I've been grinding out the coli. I'll attempt to compile a list, myself, and share if I find any significant data.

    Ugh, I used to have a friend back during the way beginning who made a personal bot for himself, based on his specific screen size, and that's how he cheated the system. He never gave me that bot because he'd have to recode it to my own computer but his was so efficient that he would give me back a team of three he trained in like. A half hour. I think when I trained from scratch it took me an hour or two of dedicated, consecutive play, and this was before keybinds. Or the cursed captcha. His bot won't work now, obviously, and aside from that he's quit the game, but...

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mokoko View Post
    Not to be a downer (realistic not pessimistic I promise) but half of why I personally can't stand the captchas is not only is it asinine Same-Color-Dragon-in-Obscure-Spot but those dragons half the time are clothed, almost as if they're taken off the "Random Dragon" front page. Some are naked, or have one or two apparel items on them, some are so disguised I click the harpy in a vain attempt to guess at a dragon.

    I can only hope these are static images and not procedurally generated depending on the player. I don't personally think I've seen repeats but I haven't thus far paid attention when I've been grinding out the coli. I'll attempt to compile a list, myself, and share if I find any significant data.

    Ugh, I used to have a friend back during the way beginning who made a personal bot for himself, based on his specific screen size, and that's how he cheated the system. He never gave me that bot because he'd have to recode it to my own computer but his was so efficient that he would give me back a team of three he trained in like. A half hour. I think when I trained from scratch it took me an hour or two of dedicated, consecutive play, and this was before keybinds. Or the cursed captcha. His bot won't work now, obviously, and aside from that he's quit the game, but...
    Mainly this is the biggest issue. The clothes, and the fact that it's all borderless. Even if we compiled the items rather than the dragons, they change the colors, positions, and even backgrounds to make it harder to crack. You can't even get it to detect part of a dragon because the color changes. Not to mention how vast the item database is and the fact that they use vistas as backgrounds even can throw things off because sometimes they appear as objects or dragons to any kind of cracking software.

    To get even close to cracking the dragons wearing clothes we'd have to get images of every dragon gender wearing every clothing type and combination. That's extremely unreasonable to try to accomplish, literally even if everyone on this thread tried to do it it'd still be such a daunting task that I'm not sure we could do it.

    Also on that note, have you ever seen ancient breeds in the captcha? I personally have not but it's an unknown factor at this time.

    ---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by anagram22 View Post
    I can give a go at it, I've done similar things before -- once for my own convenience in creating graphics for a site I just took a week to manually save every single image, organized by type and name, so I wouldn't have to go fetch them later. FR's image base is far, far larger (it is intimidating to even try to consider breaking that thing down,) but it's not an impossible task to gather all the data -- it's only the tedium that makes it seem unwieldy! And in the meantime, saving the captchas will help, too, I think -- at least to determine if they really are generated dynamically or if there is a specific pool of them that the site draws from.

    I think... organizing a space to save them all in advance might help. Maybe a shared dropbox or something? I honestly have no idea how to go about that things, though I know some people I could ask about it.

    Ideally finding a way to pull and save the images from FR automatically would be best for both time and everyone's sanity, but that's proving far harder than I anticipated. FR's dragon image URLs (at least in the scryshop) are listed as the following,


    Which you would think would make it easy to change from one image to the next by simply changing the URL! But for some asinine reason, they've made the authorization code for each image different -- I used a text comparison tool just now for the basic/maize/adult/common-eyed Banescales, with the only difference being the sex of the dragon. "&gender=" changes from 1 to 0, as you'd expect, but so does the "&auth=" code. For the male it's "691fbc470fb0913de098734f6129bb11535e4498" and for the female it's "89a1d2b8a8b4cb0c79f09b67e387d44d8bbc5ac8". Because of this, just grabbing images from the server (that is, avoiding the scryshop,) doesn't seem like it will be feasible.

    ... I could make a forum game equivalent of dragon telephone and we could get people to eventually post an iteration of every single dragon combination for us, but it would probably take ages. xD

    Edit://
    (you need an account to see links)
    I'm taking this captcha personally. There is a fae in here. This more than anything else is why I want the capcha system they have to get cracked. :/
    You are more than welcome to try that, but we compiled thousands upon thousands of captchas on our own and with the help of the community at one point with zero results to show for it.

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahsoka View Post
    Mainly this is the biggest issue. The clothes, and the fact that it's all borderless. Even if we compiled the items rather than the dragons, they change the colors, positions, and even backgrounds to make it harder to crack. You can't even get it to detect part of a dragon because the color changes. Not to mention how vast the item database is and the fact that they use vistas as backgrounds even can throw things off because sometimes they appear as objects or dragons to any kind of cracking software.

    To get even close to cracking the dragons wearing clothes we'd have to get images of every dragon gender wearing every clothing type and combination. That's extremely unreasonable to try to accomplish, literally even if everyone on this thread tried to do it it'd still be such a daunting task that I'm not sure we could do it.

    Also on that note, have you ever seen ancient breeds in the captcha? I personally have not but it's an unknown factor at this time.
    I don't think I have, but honestly half the captchas don't even look like dragons to me, with how busy and muddled everything gets. For me, with a really bad astigmatism, it's hell to distinguish, and that's mild compared to the complaints by people who are colorblind. Sure, these captchas got rid of botters, but it also discouraged so many users that a lot of people stopped playing in the coliseum. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater on that one, I guess. I can tell you IF I saw an ancient, it was only a gaoler based on how comparatively rare banescales are right now, but gaolers have a pose and the barest hint of shape similarity to guardians, or female coatls, or what have you that I can't confirm.

    People in suggestions have begged for borders, or even keybinding the captchas with a/b/c/d so you at least can SEE the choices at the worst of times. I can see FR staff saying absolutely not at the mere hint of their captcha getting cracked, but seriously? The site's pretty rampant with multiaccounters who don't even try to hide it and staff don't pull the banhammer on them (During the banescale intro I wanted to ask a person about one of their hatched scales. Their username was (breed)heart and they were friends with a single account that had practically nothing BUT the breed. My good bitch, please).

    I feel like the staff sort of arbitrarily just want to fuck over the disabled folk half the time, and screw the artistic groups the other time with their shitty lore rules update. If a dragon pees it dies no exception banned for a thousand years if you imply your accent is blood-covered.

    Do you think this might also be some trial run for Adventure Mode? God knows when we'll see that, or even if, but I can absolutely see them pasting dragons over backgrounds with familiars "in the way." What even was promised with that, was it just a more interactive coliseum? A neoquest clone?

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  8. #25

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    The captchas are dynamically generated folks, if you open one after it's solved (or after you're booted) it vanishes. If we click on any area that isn't the exact right set of pixels, then it's a fail state. I'm begrudgingly impressed by how sophisticated FR's antibot system is, given how they generally fail to accomplish most anything else... it's a quandry.

    Do you think putting a bounty on FR's captcha system could help? I'd be willing to chip in.

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagram22 View Post
    The captchas are dynamically generated folks, if you open one after it's solved (or after you're booted) it vanishes. If we click on any area that isn't the exact right set of pixels, then it's a fail state. I'm begrudgingly impressed by how sophisticated FR's antibot system is, given how they generally fail to accomplish most anything else... it's a quandry.

    Do you think putting a bounty on FR's captcha system could help? I'd be willing to chip in.
    It might, honestly. I'm broke irl right now but I'd be willing to chip in some pet site rewards for the giant jackpot.
    I'd also be willing to help out anyone who's trying personally, via training and repetitive tasks.

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  11. #27

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    I've been bouncing ideas off a friend of mine about this, and at this point I'm pretty... stymied.

    -On average, you must correctly solve 1/5 captchas to avoid getting booted from the coli.
    -Captchas are dynamically generated, complex images with dragons who wear clothes and have different patterns and colors on top of that, in addition to multiple poses apiece.
    -The backgrounds are usually cropped from other backgrounds or images, and are sometimes mirrored or otherwise altered.
    -FR uses JavaScript to identify the cursor position of the user, and passes on the X-Y coordinates of their click along with the image ID to determine whether the click was correct.
    -Trying to compute all the dragon combos outputs as infinity in google, and Wolfram-Alpha ran out of free computing time. Trying to use the dragon's shapes for machine learning, alternatively, is difficult because of the fact that dragons wear clothes sometimes, and are furthermore often rotated.
    -Because of the complexity of genes, color-matching probably won't work well either.
    -Breaking open FR's servers to look directly at their code might not provide fruitful information, either, and putting in a backdoor might not work if they monitor for rogue code.
    -Many modern captcha solving tools offload the work to real humans who are paid to solve these captchas, which while being dubiously ethical at best, is also infeasible for the average dragon hell user.

    FR's really put some work into this thing. I have to admit I'm impressed, to a point.

    Imagine how great the game would be if they put that much effort into actually making the Coliseum worth using.

    I can try to pony up some cash to put towards the pool, as well as some other things? Forever kicking myself for not investing in bitcoin.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by anagram22 View Post
    I've been bouncing ideas off a friend of mine about this, and at this point I'm pretty... stymied.

    -On average, you must correctly solve 1/5 captchas to avoid getting booted from the coli.
    -Captchas are dynamically generated, complex images with dragons who wear clothes and have different patterns and colors on top of that, in addition to multiple poses apiece.
    -The backgrounds are usually cropped from other backgrounds or images, and are sometimes mirrored or otherwise altered.
    -FR uses JavaScript to identify the cursor position of the user, and passes on the X-Y coordinates of their click along with the image ID to determine whether the click was correct.
    -Trying to compute all the dragon combos outputs as infinity in google, and Wolfram-Alpha ran out of free computing time. Trying to use the dragon's shapes for machine learning, alternatively, is difficult because of the fact that dragons wear clothes sometimes, and are furthermore often rotated.
    -Because of the complexity of genes, color-matching probably won't work well either.
    -Breaking open FR's servers to look directly at their code might not provide fruitful information, either, and putting in a backdoor might not work if they monitor for rogue code.
    -Many modern captcha solving tools offload the work to real humans who are paid to solve these captchas, which while being dubiously ethical at best, is also infeasible for the average dragon hell user.

    FR's really put some work into this thing. I have to admit I'm impressed, to a point.

    Imagine how great the game would be if they put that much effort into actually making the Coliseum worth using.

    I can try to pony up some cash to put towards the pool, as well as some other things? Forever kicking myself for not investing in bitcoin.
    They hired a new coder literally just for this I believe. It's not a secret that an unused programmer account suddenly popped up out of nowhere and the coli captcha became uncrackable as far as my team's skills go shortly after.

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  14. #29
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    Anyone up to training a pigeon to click on dragons?

    But all joking aside, interesting news that the captchas are dynamically generated. That's almost an impressive bit of coding. Pity it shows where their priorities are though, not on actually making a game or maintaining the playerbase. It almost feels like they're picked up the corporate tactic of relying on player turnover to keep their income where they want it.

    Anyway, ah yeah. I can chip in too if y'all are serious about a bounty. I'd need guidance on it, but yeah, honestly I just want to break the thing because it's such a headache to deal with.

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  16. #30

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    Dynamically generating the images isn't hard if you already have assets available, but the fact that FR's doing it is just more than I'd expect from them specifically. I definitely believe that they found someone competent to make this for them, for better and for worse -- honestly if word gets around that this is an "uncrackable captcha" it might get people trying just for the sake of saying they broke it. I'm sure there's a way around it out there, it's just going to be a lot of work.

    But that's the truth, I think. FR's staff seem geared more toward... preservation than innovation. Or put another way, they seem more invested in controlling the environment they've set up (preventing botting, becoming increasingly restrictive with content et al) than in implementing new core features, or even the features they promised during the kickstarter. Making images is still work, of course, it's a real job and a very important part of any petsite's longevity! But it can't be the end-all be-all or eventually user retention will fold and you will lose your relevancy.

    It doesn't help matters that FR's notoriously bad at listening to any kind of feedback whatsoever; they have a very "that's nice, but I know best" mentality and it's one of the main sticking points I have with them as staff. Many times they've inadvertently engineered total userbase meltdowns simply by not addressing the players and explaining what's happening; their policy of hunkering down and waiting for things to pass only makes their reputation worse. Transparency goes a long way, and though I can't deny that they have improved a bit compared to when I first started playing, the bulk of their policies continue to vex me.

    But that's... a topic for another thread!

    A bounty to try and get the captcha cracked until such time as we brainstorm an alternative plan, and in the meantime, is there anything else more conducive to being botted on FR we can piddle with? Familiar bonding, the fairground games perhaps. If someone cares to fix up that old tampermonkey script for the scrying workshop I'll be in your debt -- I have no idea how feasible it is given my general lack of knowledge, but if FR won't give us a hoard search, by god someone ought to. Or even a simple userscript to make the icons bigger when you're selecting something to auction would be great; I think keeping busy will keep folk motivated while we grapple with the biggest issue. I only wish I can contribute more personally. D:
    Last edited by anagram22; 01-03-2020 at 02:01 AM. Reason: clarity

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