Anime vs. Animated?

[Lyrichord]

I've had this question floating in the back of my mind recently as I've started to watch more anime again. What makes an animated film or show anime, specifically? At what point does one artistic style become classified as the other? Anime is clearly animated, but something like Disney's Big Hero 6 isn't anime. Does it have to have a manga or other drawn cartoon to qualify?

I first thought of this in relation to the Studio Ghibli movies. I hadn't even considered that they might be called anime, but I saw that they were included in this section. Then, I started to think about how I used to watch Powerball Z on TV in Y2K, way before I had even heard the term anime, and thought it was just a standard cartoon.

I'm curious to know what everyone here thinks!

[KJiU]

To me what i see of anime vs animation will always be "Anime vs Cartoon" + （3d / effects）. Probably because from an asian perspective i will always group the animation (Disney / marvel / etc) as cartoon or 3d movies/shows.

But to put it in the most simple term its would be as : A Japanese style art/ concept based cartoon VS A Western style/concept cartoon.

Anime : Focus more on character details, background and storyline plot . Hot blooded dramatic sensation ( to be honest i don't think western animation could replicated this aside from the chinese animations )
Animation : More of a adventure , comedy aspect

I also find that one of the core part that makes anime popular and good is the "Seiyuu". Compared to an animation with an english voice actor the vibe changes , (not to say that the english voice actor isn't good).

Found a summary which pretty much sums everything up :

54318

[Ice]

I definitely agree with what KJ said! To me, anime will always very intrinsically be tied to Japanese animation style influences and is a very stylistic thing, so while AtLA would be considered anime-inspired or influenced (especially with how they sometimes do the over-exaggerated facial expressions) it's still definitively a cartoon/western animation in my mind. Same thing for Steven Universe.

Although I didn't think about it one step further of following traditional "anime" trope narratives or other categories such as demographics or subject matters, so that's very interesting to think about as well! I do think there is a large bias that in the west, animations/cartoons are generally reserved for children/young audiences and light hearted or primarily fun/fantastical stories. But as far as anime/manga go in Japan, the breadth of themes and genres is massive and covers just about everything.

[birdies]

I definitely agree with what KJ said! To me, anime will always very intrinsically be tied to Japanese animation style influences and is a very stylistic thing, so while AtLA would be considered anime-inspired or influenced (especially with how they sometimes do the over-exaggerated facial expressions) it's still definitively a cartoon/western animation in my mind. Same thing for Steven Universe.

Although I didn't think about it one step further of following traditional "anime" trope narratives or other categories such as demographics or subject matters, so that's very interesting to think about as well! I do think there is a large bias that in the west, animations/cartoons are generally reserved for children/young audiences and light hearted or primarily fun/fantastical stories. But as far as anime/manga go in Japan, the breadth of themes and genres is massive and covers just about everything.

Agree with this, I would say Anime is a specific genre of animation which then has its own subgenres within it. I'd say things like Disney, Adult cartoons vs children's cartoons etc are all also genres within the animation umbrella.

[phantasia]

To me what i see of anime vs animation will always be "Anime vs Cartoon" + （3d / effects）. Probably because from an asian perspective i will always group the animation (Disney / marvel / etc) as cartoon or 3d movies/shows.

But to put it in the most simple term its would be as : A Japanese style art/ concept based cartoon VS A Western style/concept cartoon.

Anime : Focus more on character details, background and storyline plot . Hot blooded dramatic sensation ( to be honest i don't think western animation could replicated this aside from the chinese animations )
Animation : More of a adventure , comedy aspect

I also find that one of the core part that makes anime popular and good is the "Seiyuu". Compared to an animation with an english voice actor the vibe changes , (not to say that the english voice actor isn't good).

Found a summary which pretty much sums everything up :

54318

I think we all agree that the summary might not be completely accurate.
As animation is broad I would not say that is is mostly Japenese. Disney and Pixar has contributed considerably towards animations. I would say Anime is more related to Jamapenese.
I think Animation can be dark or lite and Anime is often more dark within its subcategory. Although even Anime is sometimes very light

[Crooked]

Everyone else has already done a great job explaining, but as someone whose academic specialty concerns animation, I had to throw my hat in the ring.

Just like rectangles and squares, all anime is animation, but not all animation is anime. Anime is a genre label that can only be applied to animations made in Japan. The style of an animation cannot be used as the barometer for if something is anime or not; just as there is a myriad of artistic styles in animation, there are a myriad of styles in anime. Ice already did a good job explaining why something like ATLA or Netflix's Castlevania would be called anime-inspired, but cannot be considered anime. Anime is also a term that is often conflated with Chinese and Taiwanese animations because of stylistic similarities but this is also incorrect— that genre is called donghua.

I think a lot of people can relate to not knowing that Ghibli or other series like DBZ were anime, and calling them cartoons isn't incorrect! There are people who will try to be overly pedantic and argue otherwise but they're wrong. Anime has been imported into the United States since the 1960s and in Europe since the 70s. Generations of people have grown up watching Astro Boy, Kimba, Speed Racer, and the original Voltron without ever knowing that they were from Japan. Technically my first anime was Pokemon, and it probably was for many people, but more often than not people will refer to their first anime being the series that they first watched knowing it was anime. Just like film noir or k-drama, anime is just another label we can use to be more precise.

I'll cut myself off here because I can and will talk about animation forever. But it's a really fascinating topic! If anybody is curious about deep-diving more into it feel free to PM me and I can hook you up with some reading material, lmao.

[Synth Salazzle]

to me
anime = eastern
animated = western

[Infected]

I always thought like every anime is animated, but every animated isn't anime. Like anime is a type/genre/style of animated things. Theres 3d animated, 2d animated and so on.

[Ice]

crookedteeth very fascinating indeed, especially to hear that you studied it specifically! so going off of your anime = only an export of japan definition, would a western fan artist who draws in the "anime" style and let's say makes a DBZ spin off mini series about the boys having a road trip perfectly mimicking the show's original style, you would not classify that as anime because it was not produced in japan? I'm very curious about this because on a tangent but related discussion, there's a lot of back and forth about what is "kpop" obviously some people will say you can be a kpop group ONLY if you are korean but kpop is such an internationally consumed product now there is no denying its presence and market in international stages. and of course, non koreans also dream about being kpop stars and there are non-korean "kpop" groups like Black Swan and XG. I personally am of the opinion that you do not have to be ethnically korean to be kpop/make kpop (and I am ethnically korean) because it is a certain style that anyone can emulate despite their race (to varying degrees of success, of course, but the point being IMO kpop =/= korean people only, so I wonder the same thing about anime)

[Crooked]

crookedteeth very fascinating indeed, especially to hear that you studied it specifically! so going off of your anime = only an export of japan definition, would a western fan artist who draws in the "anime" style and let's say makes a DBZ spin off mini series about the boys having a road trip perfectly mimicking the show's original style, you would not classify that as anime because it was not produced in japan? I'm very curious about this because on a tangent but related discussion, there's a lot of back and forth about what is "kpop" obviously some people will say you can be a kpop group ONLY if you are korean but kpop is such an internationally consumed product now there is no denying its presence and market in international stages. and of course, non koreans also dream about being kpop stars and there are non-korean "kpop" groups like Black Swan and XG. I personally am of the opinion that you do not have to be ethnically korean to be kpop/make kpop (and I am ethnically korean) because it is a certain style that anyone can emulate despite their race (to varying degrees of success, of course, but the point being IMO kpop =/= korean people only, so I wonder the same thing about anime)

In the most technical and pedantic terms it would not be considered anime— there's actually a whole genre that specific scenario falls into called fanime! Animation and comics are only anime and manga if they are from Japan. However, that does not mean that Western artists cannot work in an artistic style that can be described as being anime or manga, but if I was writing a paper about this sort of artwork I would describe it as being anime/manga inspired. In casual conversation that's not a hill I'd die on, I'd just say that they have an anime style. Outside of Japan, anime and manga has a lot of cultural baggage that has kept it being an "other" within animation and comic subcultures. This is kind of a double-edged sword that's resulted in both bizarre discrimination/scrutiny and well as allure. I think people those genre labels with a certain value, and that makes calling themselves a "manga artist" more desirable than saying they make comics.

I also think this has to do with anime and manga not being called "Japanese animation" or "Japanese comics". Other cultures have distinct animation and cartooning styles that make them stand out from the Disneyfied or Marvel standards, but you don't really see American artists (just as an example) calling themselves French or Russian artists, because these genres don't have names that can be as easily co-opted or distanced from its source.

I don't really know much about k-pop and I don't have many horses in that race, but I imagine that people outside of Korea want to call themselves k-pop artists for similar reasons. There are Western pop artists that have had skilled choreography, talented singers, elaborate theming, and catchy lyrics, such as the Spice Girls, Destiny's Child, N*SYNC, etc. K-pop is called k-pop because it's Korean pop music, and just like anything else, it's influenced by the sensibilities of its culture of origin so it will have qualities that sets it apart. The label k-pop has value to its fans and it makes sense that they would identify with their inspirations. But I think it would be like you said about ATLA and anime— it would be k-pop inspired pop music. Like I said though I'm a total pleb, so this is just based on my observations and impressions.

In the end though labels and genres aren't set in stone and can change over time. This same conversation regarding what can be considered anime/manga and k-pop, as well as the interplay of this projected value I've talked about, actually has a lot of academic discourse right now! There are a lot of nerds and stans in academia, lol. There are a lot of interesting conversations about the roles Orientalism may play, but it's full of nuance and is honestly a little out of my wheelhouse. Like I said though, if anybody is curious about further reading or scholarly sources, I'd be more than happy to hook you up!

[Ice]

crookedteeth right I imagine on paper and when it comes to things like legality of categorizations, patents/trademarks, copyright, plagiarism (which is also a big topic that comes up a bunch in kpop spheres) from a legal standpoint you would need to have some kind of clear cut definition for artists to protect themselves but for the masses, it's much more a colloquial/casual term that is used loose and fast. I definitely see how there is a potential negative side surrounding intent of chasing after such labels, as there will always be those out to profit from cultural appropriation and trends without having the respect/appreciation. As a supporter of an international community of fans and creators alike however, with race/locale not being a gatekeeper for whatever hobby or profession one wants to pursue, in a perfect world people should be able to engage in whatever makes them happy as long as it is done respectfully. Like if there was a western animation studio who wanted to create an "anime inspired" original series in the Japanese animation style and as such classify/market it as anime because of its inspiration and target demographics but being told hey you're not from a Japanese studio so it's not anime, idk I guess that'd make me feel sad for them since we all love anime and what it brings to the table no matter where we're from, and being automatically excluded from contributing back in that way seems like a kick. But of course not saying the same for corporations or the super rich who would just want to "ride the wave" and profit off of the cultural significance/popularity of things like anime/kpop, without truly having the passion for the thing. since I toooootally get + lived through the whole "wow you're into anime? fucking nerd" trauma to seeing anime/manga become massively mainstream. 🥴 idk sorry the world is a very complex place and I wish we could just bake cakes made of rainbows and happiness and all get along 😂

[Crooked]

Ice Yeah there's definitely a lot of different angles you could approach any side of the argument from. Only time will tell how things will develop!

[DarkSkies]

Well I'm no expert so I basically stick with what has been said here about anime being from Japan. Like if I cannot understand the original language and I need subtitles and it's animated, that's anime for me haha.

The ATLA example was a relevant one :)

[Lyrichord]

I'm finally off work and can respond. I really appreciate everyone's insight!

crookedteeth A couple things you mentioned struck a chord with me! I was wondering if similar styles in other Asian countries would be considered the same thing. I was glad to hear they have their own name for the genre! Fanime is such a neat term too for those in Western cultures.

Another part of my reason for asking, was based on just how rooted it is in American and Western cultures now. And now that a couple decades have passed, whether both the Japanese style and American style are becoming closer to one another - and then if that would eventually change the terminology and/or the flexibility of the genre. Animation has improved drastically across the world, as has story-telling. There are plenty of cartoon based graphic novels for adults in the states, although most of them haven't made it to film.

I agree with Phantasia that the dichotomies presented in that chart are not necessarily true, in both directions!


In the end though labels and genres aren't set in stone and can change over time. This same conversation regarding what can be considered anime/manga and k-pop, as well as the interplay of this projected value I've talked about, actually has a lot of academic discourse right now! There are a lot of nerds and stans in academia, lol. There are a lot of interesting conversations about the roles Orientalism may play, but it's full of nuance and is honestly a little out of my wheelhouse. Like I said though, if anybody is curious about further reading or scholarly sources, I'd be more than happy to hook you up!

Do you think the genre labels will change at some point? I'm curious about the role of Orientalism, too. :$

Ice Your comments on gatekeeping and who's allowed to make and call what, what were super interesting too! I agree on making sure it's respecting culture, and celebrating it, and not just doing it because it would sell to people who actually are interested.

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts!

[KJiU]

phantasia , yeah the list is mainly just a for a reference, since the term animation is such a big scope that just have different variations/genres branches of how people / countries deal and play around with it.

crookedteeth i do agree with you on 动漫 dongman/donghua aka chinese anime haha , China usually does 3d style more often and a ton of crappy animated manhua's series. But they still have some titles i do see them on par with japanese anime in terms of story and art also i guess some japanese studio collab the the china studios.

Like my all time fav King's Avatar 全职高手 , Yi Ren Zhi Xia 一人之下 (Hitori no Shita - The Outcast)

I do read somewhere that japanese animators / studios are kinda worried about their china's rival /competitor since they are doing better / growing well bit by bit. Gotta say that china being a big copy machine is indeed a threat :P

[Peaches_and_Mocha]

Sorry to reopen an old thread but I thought it was relevant. I went down a bit of a rabbit hole on this today so I thought I'd share the thread where I posted my findings:

88961 Page 2

[phantasia]

After raeding and watching the videos that Peaches_and_Mocha posted I actually realised that one of my favorite animations (cartoon) is Anime.
I think I was just not really aware and Dragonball Z reunite it for me. I am sorry really hated that show when I was a child.

I love Heidi. I littraly put that show on for my sisters daughter every time she visited me. I bought the dvd's

I can see that anime is deeper and more detailed than pure animation. Also the target market seems to be very different.

[Junellie]

I was wondering about this recently, cos I saw my favourite film (Resident Evil: Death Island) categorised as Anime on TV Tropes, which surprised me because I think of it as a CGI animated film rather than anime

[kalez]

Yeah the term anime kinda differs between who you ask haha.
For me it's the (usage of) limited animation techniques that evolved from the constraints of the production process, such as time and budget among other things.
These techniques were actually taken from Hanna-Barbera cartoons (i.e. Flintstones, Scooby-Doo) and then further evolved into its own kind of genre. There used to be a good video on YouTube describing what I'm talking about but I cannot find it lol.

EDIT: I also do weigh in it being produced or developed by a Japanese animation house or studio though, even though a lot of the staff working on these shows these days are Korean due to outsourcing shots and whatnot.

[KJiU]

Junellie , kalez To be honest there is probably a million reasons to debate between the 2 but i still stay by anime = asian (jap/kr/cn) vs animation (western) :o_o: , but the anime now seems to have a drastically change , which they switch to the use of more CGI animation instead of the hand drawn artwork. To safe time and the large workload mostly i guess and also due to competition ? I saw some article mentioning that the anime industry isn't really doing good , anime artists get low wages overworked and stuffs . I think the recent one was the animator leaving MAPPA topic.

To add on to both Junellies mention on the Resident Evil: Death Island, when i search it , it was mention as a CG anime film by Quebico haha.