North Korea

[Josh]

Wanted to see what other people's opinion is on this issue. As well as opinions of people who aren't in the united states.

In july, North Korea has tested 2 ICBMs, in an attempt to make one that is capable of reaching the united states with a nuclear warhead. And has threatened to do just that.

Currently, all trump has done is show military force near north korea. Most recently by flying B-1 Bombers over the korean peninsula.

Oh and anonymous claimed a couple months ago that we are on the verge of a world war.

Curious as to what people think should be done about north korea.

[Pusheen]

I believe it's not just a problem for the United States, North Korea is a country that is potentially dangerous for the whole world... they are lead by a crazy mandatary and have their population on the ignorance on purpose. It's crazy when you think it like that, that a country like that could still exist on the world we live in.

The world we're living right now is pretty pacifist though, if countries can avoid war they do. That's why even when there are many problems between nations, they just perdure and nothing it's done about it for the purpose of avoiding conflict. Few exceptions are done, one of them it's North Korea and other the islamic state.

Now, what should be done? The united nations organization should be the one to come together and do something about it. Ideally, in my point of view, have an international cooperation against north korea. But realistically, that won't happen unless north korea attacks. The "teasing" of Kim Jong-un has been going on for years and feels more like a show of power to his own people than a try to scare other countries... so it might just continue to be a tease for many years more.

[EvolutionZzZ]

We are absolutely on the verge of WWIII. Without a doubt.

North Korea is your stereotypical "american child". Spoiled, dumb, and throw temper tantrums lol. Seems like North Korea's LEADERS are the same way. "only their leaders" I am in no way saying that North Koreans are to blame. North Koreans need help from outside entities to save their freedom.

Also, China removed their restrictions for how many children you can have right? When you have probably the worst population and pollution problems in the world.... Seems like the wrong time to let your country populate more, unless they know whats coming :(

[Bexxie]

I believe it's not just a problem for the United States, North Korea is a country that is potentially dangerous for the whole world... they are lead by a crazy mandatary and have their population on the ignorance on purpose. It's crazy when you think it like that, that a country like that could still exist on the world we live in.

The world we're living right now is pretty pacifist though, if countries can avoid war they do. That's why even when there are many problems between nations, they just perdure and nothing it's done about it for the purpose of avoiding conflict. Few exceptions are done, one of them it's North Korea and other the islamic state.

Now, what should be done? The united nations organization should be the one to come together and do something about it. Ideally, in my point of view, have an international cooperation against north korea. But realistically, that won't happen unless north korea attacks. The "teasing" of Kim Jong-un has been going on for years and feels more like a show of power to his own people than a try to scare other countries... so it might just continue to be a tease for many years more.

I agree with this especially the teasing part. Kim Jong-un is basically a man-child that is trying to make himself look big and bad.

[haiqtpi]

History repeats itself. If you think about WWI and WWII, and hell, the Crimean War and most other international conflicts, it is all about balance of power. Yes, the world would love to just vaporize NK (or, preferably, change leadership/unite Korea)--the problem is the repercussions. An attack on NK will almost assuredly result in the total destruction of Seoul, let alone any additional responses. That in itself is horrible, and would cost probably upwards of a million lives. EVEN IF an attack was made, it would create an imbalance of power, which is the real problem--if the US and allies attacked, China and Russia would see it as against their own national interests, and may then make some sort of counter move. If China or even Russia were to attack, that would be seen as an attempt to have more influence in the region, and would prompt responses from the US and allies. What we have here is a global issue--countries are all acting in their own interests, and sadly that creates problems like this, which would normally be quite easy to solve, but is overly complicated because nobody trusts each other. The world is certainly linked more than it ever before, but we still maintain very unique national identities and interests, and this makes united responses to problems nearly never unanimous, and prompts leaders to act out of selfishness or self-preservation, rather than the common good for the world. Obviously, China and Russia do not want NK to fuck shit up, because there would likely be collateral damage to their own interests--it is just that these damages are not as horrible (in their minds) as growing US influence in the region.

[createweb]

We are absolutely on the verge of WWIII. Without a doubt.

North Korea is your stereotypical "american child". Spoiled, dumb, and throw temper tantrums lol. Seems like North Korea's LEADERS are the same way. "only their leaders" I am in no way saying that North Koreans are to blame. North Koreans need help from outside entities to save their freedom.

Also, China removed their restrictions for how many children you can have right? When you have probably the worst population and pollution problems in the world.... Seems like the wrong time to let your country populate more, unless they know whats coming :(

I'd also like to point out that China is having a border dispute with India right now. SCS issues seem to have died down or at least been brought to the diplomatic table, but might boil over at any time as well.

[EvolutionZzZ]

I'd also like to point out that China is having a border dispute with India right now. SCS issues seem to have died down or at least been brought to the diplomatic table, but might boil over at any time as well.

Shit is going DOWN!!!

My responses get more simple when I drink... DOWN!!!

[Hawk]

Tough to say.
North Korea is significantly behind on the curve when it comes to nuclear advances, and military tech in general. Perhaps a coo is in order, the US has toppled governments before, I can't imagine with someone as stupid as Kim it wouldn't be hard. Uniting Korea would be a nightmare, but at least putting someone willing to open NK to the world in power might do some good.

IDK About how likely it is for NK to ever get an ICBM to get to America, the Pacific ocean is significantly wider than the atlantic, perhaps they could aim for hawaii but that's not a worthwhile target by any means. We haven't maintained a military presence there in a long time. And since NK has next to no naval power it's unlikely they could manage to float a missile close enough to even attempt a launch.

Really NK has been posturing for decades, their technology is 50-60s era, and their leader is basically just a little boy, if he can managed to get enough plutonium for one H-bomb I'd be impressed, but since pretty much every country has North Korea embargoed, I'd say it's pretty slim that anyone would be sliding them enriched nuclear fuel for anything. I can't imagine people are looking to smuggle anything or anyone into North Korea...though I know there are quite a few trying to get smuggled out.

We'll have to see. To avoid Nuclear war I can see China stepping in and flexing a bit of their strong arm, as North Korea becoming a nuclear target means China will most definitely be effected, as will Japan and neither of them will have anything to do with it. There's also the fact that America maintains military presence in Japan, it'd be easy to invade and remove North Korea as a threat if they do decide to give it a go. No one on the world stage would tell us not to, not if NK is serious about Nuclear armaments.

As there's one war that cannot happen, and it's the one with the Nuclear Arsenals being put to use.

[Josh]

Tough to say.
North Korea is significantly behind on the curve when it comes to nuclear advances, and military tech in general. Perhaps a coo is in order, the US has toppled governments before, I can't imagine with someone as stupid as Kim it wouldn't be hard. Uniting Korea would be a nightmare, but at least putting someone willing to open NK to the world in power might do some good.

IDK About how likely it is for NK to ever get an ICBM to get to America, the Pacific ocean is significantly wider than the atlantic, perhaps they could aim for hawaii but that's not a worthwhile target by any means. We haven't maintained a military presence there in a long time. And since NK has next to no naval power it's unlikely they could manage to float a missile close enough to even attempt a launch.

Really NK has been posturing for decades, their technology is 50-60s era, and their leader is basically just a little boy, if he can managed to get enough plutonium for one H-bomb I'd be impressed, but since pretty much every country has North Korea embargoed, I'd say it's pretty slim that anyone would be sliding them enriched nuclear fuel for anything. I can't imagine people are looking to smuggle anything or anyone into North Korea...though I know there are quite a few trying to get smuggled out.

We'll have to see. To avoid Nuclear war I can see China stepping in and flexing a bit of their strong arm, as North Korea becoming a nuclear target means China will most definitely be effected, as will Japan and neither of them will have anything to do with it. There's also the fact that America maintains military presence in Japan, it'd be easy to invade and remove North Korea as a threat if they do decide to give it a go. No one on the world stage would tell us not to, not if NK is serious about Nuclear armaments.

As there's one war that cannot happen, and it's the one with the Nuclear Arsenals being put to use.

They've actually shown very recently that their last ICBM test could have easily reached the united states. Chicago was in range.

[Hawk]

They've actually shown very recently that their last ICBM test could have easily reached the united states. Chicago was in range.

Interesting, I'm still not convinced anything will ever come of it, having an ICBM is one thing; but nuclear armaments is another. I don't doubt they could make one but I doubt it would be a payload of any significant mass, there's a lot of desert between California and Chicago, it'd be easy to miss a lot of the primary targets if their navigation systems aren't up to snuff.

I mean once that bomb drops though, China has a great reason to quickly snuff out North Korea; the USA is their best customer, and a war in their backyard, once nuclear options are on the table is bad news. China and the US have never been at war, and Russia would rather not break the tenuous relationship they have with America.

I mean there is also the issue of MAD, any nuclear weapon dropped on a major power, is a signed and return addressed package with nothing but death in it. Smaller nations can be wiped off the planet with one tactical sized nuke. Our world right now is rightly afraid of it, should someone threaten that sort of peace, no one comes out the other side okay.

[createweb]

Interesting, I'm still not convinced anything will ever come of it, having an ICBM is one thing; but nuclear armaments is another. I don't doubt they could make one but I doubt it would be a payload of any significant mass, there's a lot of desert between California and Chicago, it'd be easy to miss a lot of the primary targets if their navigation systems aren't up to snuff.

I mean once that bomb drops though, China has a great reason to quickly snuff out North Korea; the USA is their best customer, and a war in their backyard, once nuclear options are on the table is bad news. China and the US have never been at war, and Russia would rather not break the tenuous relationship they have with America.

I mean there is also the issue of MAD, any nuclear weapon dropped on a major power, is a signed and return addressed package with nothing but death in it. Smaller nations can be wiped off the planet with one tactical sized nuke. Our world right now is rightly afraid of it, should someone threaten that sort of peace, no one comes out the other side okay.

But they have had multiple successful nuclear detonations. Analysts have said that it's a matter of time for NK to obtain weaponise nuclear technology. And the fact that they refuse to back down/negotiate/be reasonable is what's getting the world skittish.

[Hawk]

But they have had multiple successful nuclear detonations. Analysts have said that it's a matter of time for NK to obtain weaponise nuclear technology. And the fact that they refuse to back down/negotiate/be reasonable is what's getting the world skittish.

well skittish is one thing, but allowing them to fully pull off a nuclear launch on one of the worlds super powers...well IDK China doesn't have nearly our discretion, should they ever want north korea gone, there is little stopping them.

[createweb]

well skittish is one thing, but allowing them to fully pull off a nuclear launch on one of the worlds super powers...well IDK China doesn't have nearly our discretion, should they ever want north korea gone, there is little stopping them.

Well I've read somewhere that the Korean War is a proxy war between china and USA. If NK was wiped out, it should (historically) go back to SK. SK is supported by USA. If Korea is united under the current SK government, then China has no buffer between USA and its own border. China is already going nuts with USA "interference" in SK (THAAD system and all that).

[Hawk]

Well I've read somewhere that the Korean War is a proxy war between china and USA. If NK was wiped out, it should (historically) go back to SK. SK is supported by USA. If Korea is united under the current SK government, then China has no buffer between USA and its own border. China is already going nuts with USA "interference" in SK (THAAD system and all that).

Yes, but there is the issue that China exports quite a lot more to the USA than to any other country. And the USA also has another easy out to China through Japan, and the Japanese and Chinese have never been on particularly good terms. I just have the feeling that China could manage a more direct border with the USA if there wasn't the threat that their front door wasn't going to be the target of nuclear retaliation.

There's just too many factors, and too much danger on all sides to let North Korea go unchecked forever. Eventually it has to be dealt with before the nuclear options rolls onto the table.

[createweb]

Yes, but there is the issue that China exports quite a lot more to the USA than to any other country. And the USA also has another easy out to China through Japan, and the Japanese and Chinese have never been on particularly good terms. I just have the feeling that China could manage a more direct border with the USA if there wasn't the threat that their front door wasn't going to be the target of nuclear retaliation.

There's just too many factors, and too much danger on all sides to let North Korea go unchecked forever. Eventually it has to be dealt with before the nuclear options rolls onto the table.

That I agree, but how to deal with them? They (NK) obviously don't want to play the diplomatic game. I for one am a proponent of military intervention.

[OakTree]

Eh this subject is almost funny.

First thing first - there is no ww3 coming because the current axis of evil is too weak, there could easily be a world catastrophe with 1m-2m dead, it's not world war level.
Also you can't look at north korea and scream ww3, they are not advancing alone.

Currently China has no will or much to gain from supporting NK in a global war, I actually find it very hard to believe they will intervene much, they are going to try and take advantage of the war but likely via annexing lands from a losing side.
Russia on the other hand can easily find the will to be invested in this.
Russia has a very annoying friend called the Islam, primarily Iran and Syria but also armed groups everywhere, most notably Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, that's a list of countries that may get cooped in favor of a radical muslim group, because that's their majority anyway.
Turkey also stands to profit from an internal Arab conflict.

The major forces against leadership swaps in the middle east are Saudi Arabia and of course Israel, both will become the primary targets of said armed forced as soon as a quick coop hits.

The internal opposition being the egyptian army which could easily just flip sides if it seems fitting and the king of Jordan which is a minority in a Palestinian majority country (#Jordan is Palestine)

I think with the europeans in general, their armies are tiny at this point and will only act as support. (eh tiny of course as compared to the fact that Germany for instance used to be able to go toe to toe with the entire world, and UK was quite formidable too, completely disregarding all the others, but again even that when compared to Russia, NK and the Muslim world is plenty, it's just that I doubt they'll mobilize enough force to have history remember what they did)

So the way I see it this global war has a bunch of fronts:
1. Korea-Korea where the south will take a massive amount of casualties and will, via the power of the US have the ability to take down NK, which will also suffer a massive amount of casualties, this will trigger Russia to help NK to no avail and may trigger China to attempt to annex NK as a 'temporary agreeable solution' since they are 'friendly' which may result in NK becoming part of China until a revolution occurs dozens of years from now.
2. Russia and Turkey will seize the day, Russia will try to capture parts of eastern europe they figure are theirs, and we all saw how much US cares about that with Ukraine so no I suspect US will not intervene there with anything but weapon shipments, The western euros might but very little, this is a front without many casualties, anything can happen, they may be kicked out of Ukraine or Ukraine may be no more, who knows.
For Turkey this is a great chance for their dictator/totally-democratic-ruler to finally try to move the Arab world under his wings, he will 'save' Lebanon and Syria from their mess by taking their lands away, Syria will likely be split between Turkish control and Iran's control, this will force Israel's hand into attacking the Iran-Turkey front, Jordan and Egypt and the terrorist Falstine will either stay out or face Israel, not by military but their usual missile tactics, claiming it's not about the majority, it's just terrorists. Saudi Arabia and Iran will resolve some conflicts take some lands from countries around them, no one really cares because those are all Muslim countries anyway.

At that point US may bother with bombing Iran just to help both Israel and Saudi Arabia and claim they won all by themselves, but more likely than not they will sell billions of dollars of weapons to Israel and Saudi Arabia just to milk it first.
Iran will use this opportunity to activate sleeping cells in the entire western Europe, the crying baby euros will freak out over 2000 dead or something and try to force the war to end.

Now knowing Israel, we won't use this once in a lifetime chance to banish the Falstinian problems, ending with around 2000 dead we'll call this a huge defeat blablabla
Iran-Turkey will agree to a ceasefire, feel victorious with about 300k dead on all fronts and everyone will calm their butts down.

Aftermath: Turkey grows east, Iran tries growing west but blocked, Saudi Arabia wins a couple of fights in the region without territorial change, Russia gets a couple acres around east Europe, NK gone, now under Chinese ownership, Syria shrinks becomes new-Syria, Lebanon stays free but is a coop makes Iran the actual owners, Jordan and Egypt calm down the messes and return to current situation

SK may have been nuked, most casualties are there, nothing was really gained for them, US sells lots of weapons good for them, Israel somehow to blame and all is well in the world.

Pretty much how I see this plays out, not enough dead to be a world war, most deads in Muslim countries where their life don't matter anyway.


Edit: of course this is a what if US bombs them, otherwise 20 years in the future both Iran and NK, possibly multiple other Muslim countries too in order to 'stay in the game' all have nuclear capabilities, Russia probably finds an excuse to get more territory somewhere anyway, the Muslim world swaps leaders like 10 more times in order to get even more radical ones, they gain political power in Europe allowing them to demand territories, possibly receive some, causing a wave of Nationalism from the young Europeans and that seems like a much more suitable baseline for a real world war.

Kim isn't as unreasonable as you think, he knows he hold US by the balls thanks to Clinton and Bush's incompetence, he knows that's how US folds, he knows a lot of countries would never do a thing under the risk of a nuke, especially for another country and he knows that in general the US has a long long record of only intervening after its attacked in any way but selling weapons.
He is just trying to get the best deal plausible for him when some folks come over and beg him not to shoot.
This actually also allows him to start thinking about advancing into SK, because honestly I am not sure they'll fight all that much back and for sure no one is helping them if NK can reach nuke-the-west-coast capabilities.
Japan might intervene but it's been a while since they were a real threat to anyone.
Honestly he'll likely grab a few kilometers call it a win and everyone will move on with it.
This is just what happens when you trust the US to deal with your enemy's nukes, a very bitter lesson for SK that at some point will force a korea-korea war, and one side has nukes and the other doesn't.

[shos]

That's an interesting POV there Oak. In general, I agree. A world war will not happen; major wars however may. IMO NK will not be allowed to get nuke-capable. Especially with Trump as the world leader, lol. Question is what reaction will there be after the US hits NK; there's probably going to be a US-SK cooperation there, and the rest of the world will just watch. As an Israeli, I highly doubt any of the muslim countries will seek trouble anytime soon, especially how now most of them got some sense with regards to Qatar and their terror funding..

[OakTree]

shos - NK already has nukes thanks to Clinton and Bush dealing with NK just like Obama dealt with Iran.
The only question is how long before the nukes can be armed on missiles that can hit Japan or the US.
As it sits though, SK can be hit by a nuke at any given moment which is why they beg for help because at this point you can assume their military should be technologically way better than NK and they should be able to take NK down.
But who would invade a country that can nuke?
I mean other than Arabs of course.

Also sorry but Iran loves their Qatar terror base and is in control of groups everywhere in the Middle East and virtually controls Syria, Lebanon and Falstine thus by proxy have huge influence in Jordan and Egypt too although only secondary to current leaderships, so except another rocket rain as soon as Iran finds it suitable.

Also.. Don't count on Trump or any other US president, the US always does what is best for them and that's not always what's best for their allies, learn from SK's case.

[eCosS]

Wars cost too much lives and moneys.

The situation in South Korea is terrifying

[not_you_22]

Honestly I'd rather see the ground swallow up that whole bloody country.

[Daffodil]

Japan is pissed off that North Korea recently shot a missile over Japan and it landed in the water I believe. They are testing how far their weapons can travel without having to leave their country. They also recently used a hydrogen bomb. Didn't even know they had any but whatever.

[Serpent Rider]

There's nothing much that CAN be done, in my opinion. If either state fires first everyone dies either way. It has a great chance of being a Cold War without proxy wars. On the other hand, North Korea is among the only countries without a globalist central bank. They have a trillion dollar stockpile of minerals in the countryside they're not exploiting at the moment, and it could very well develop into a situation like Iraq where it turns out they didn't have WMDs to the level we think they did, and oh well we got some more natural resources anyway!! With Syria and Iran in the globalist pincer strike as well, there will be no inch of financial independence anymore.