New Trading Announcement

[I_royalty_I]

Hello everyone! Welcome to the biggest and best Neopets trading market you will find ANYWHERE. Why are we the best? - because of our amazing members of course!

What many people don't see is all the work that goes on behind the scenes. All the times that staff have to be watchdogs, issue warnings, trade bans, PM bans, temp bans, delete threads, moderate threads until we discuss how to handle things, private messages explaining why this is okay or that isn't, the thought process that goes on behind the scenes that most people never have to deal with. Do things seem simple like they are working properly? Good, that's how it's supposed to be.

Originally, years ago, we wanted a completely open market. But times change, things may not be AS active as they were and changes need to be made. Implying more limitations is never a popular opinion, but sometimes it is necessary in order to keep a relative state of order in the trading section.

With that said, we are going to be placing a ban on selling account lists. This will extend to "UC Packs" which we have previously touched on and discouraged. We have talked to a number of people about account lists in the past few months, but we can see things getting out of hand quite quickly so we are taking a proactive approach.


To reiterate - account packs are now banned from clraik.


In addition, please remember the normal rules and regs that we have:


$2/m for pure and items unless over 50m ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
No Auctions ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
$1/cap minimum for NC items unless bulk ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
UC prices regulations ([Only registered and activated users can see links])



We realize this may not be a popular decision but it's one staff feels is necessary. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post. However, please also note that this is not a discussion, this is a decision. If you have personal issues with these rules, you may PM staff. It may seem like a lot, but it's really not. Everything is in place for a reason and because of these guidelines, together, we have made clraik the number one trading market anywhere.


Happy Trading

-clraik Staff

[Misha]

I think this is a perfect idea. Regulate the market.

Also, I'm wondering if someone has a time span on when my trading ban will be lifted? When I came back, I noticed that I can't view the trading section at all.

[Bettser]

I think this is a perfect idea. Regulate the market.

Also, I'm wondering if someone has a time span on when my trading ban will be lifted? When I came back, I noticed that I can't view the trading section at all.

Thats something you should probably mail the moderator who dealt with your dispute :P Not to be posted on an announcement thread.

[Shmurda]

Clraik brought into the real world (economically atleast lol.) Very good to hear! ^_^

I was hoping there'd be some sort of actuality to the neo market because fuck paying $3+ for a mill and it's sketch as hell paying $1 a mill for just one mill (def hot np)
so, this should eliminate a fair amount of bullshit, but it still has it's loopholes.... heh heh (economics major, here.)

[Naked Gamer]

Clraik brought into the real world (economically atleast lol.) Very good to hear! ^_^

I was hoping there'd be some sort of actuality to the neo market because fuck paying $3+ for a mill and it's sketch as hell paying $1 a mill for just one mill (def hot np)
so, this should eliminate a fair amount of bullshit, but it still has it's loopholes.... heh heh (economics major, here.)

Did you read any of the trade rules before? The $2m been around for a long time now.


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[Cath]

Does that include accounts lists or just the fact that people are selling a bunch of accounts for a cheap price to sell quicker? I_royalty_I

[Bettser]

Does that include accounts list or just the fact that people are selling a bunch of accounts for a cheap price to sell quicker?

"With that said, we are going to be placing a ban on selling account lists. This will extend to "UC Packs" which we have previously touched on and discouraged. We have talked to a number of people about account lists in the past few months, but we can see things getting out of hand quite quickly so we are taking a proactive approach."

:P

[Zeus]

Is this because a certain *cough* someone has been selling neopoints for $0.60/m? Along with practically KILLING the entire UC market?

[Cath]

"With that said, we are going to be placing a ban on selling account lists. This will extend to "UC Packs" which we have previously touched on and discouraged. We have talked to a number of people about account lists in the past few months, but we can see things getting out of hand quite quickly so we are taking a proactive approach."

:P

Sorry, too drunk to read.
I'll now leave and act like this never happened.

[Bettser]

Is this because a certain *cough* someone has been selling neopoints for $0.60/m? Along with practically KILLING the entire UC market?

Who might that be?

[I_royalty_I]

Is this because a certain *cough* someone has been selling neopoints for $0.60/m? Along with practically KILLING the entire UC market?

That's good but account list sales can have a pretty large impact on things and it's much easier to ban them for the time being. There are plenty of other people who were or could put out account lists of equal or better quality not a days and it's better to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Not sure about the person selling for 60 cents a mil and all that?

[Naked Gamer]

That's good but account list sales can have a pretty large impact on things and it's much easier to ban them for the time being. There are plenty of other people who were or could put out account lists of equal or better quality not a days and it's better to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. Not sure about the person selling for 60 cents a mil and all that?

I'm assuming this included those gambling packs and similar stuff? Most of the time with them it's like 60c or even less a mil with some of the cool shit you get.


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[marlin67]

well there goes trying to sell the few accounts i got.

[I_royalty_I]

well there goes trying to sell the few accounts i got.

Not really. List them up individually, like normal.

[Naked Gamer]

Not really. List them up individually, like normal.

Thanks for clearing that up.


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[marlin67]

Not really. List them up individually, like normal. oh so i can 5 or more in the same post any more.

[Munna]

oh so i can 5 or more in the same post any more.

If I understand this correctly, you can literally sell as many accounts as you want in the same THREAD, just not PACKS of accounts. Like buy three mystery accounts for one lump price. It's not limiting the amount of accounts you sell, just eliminating the shortcut that really undermines the market...

[marlin67]

ah ok now it makes sence

[Bowsette]

If I understand this correctly, you can literally sell as many accounts as you want in the same THREAD, just not PACKS of accounts. Like buy three mystery accounts for one lump price. It's not limiting the amount of accounts you sell, just eliminating the shortcut that really undermines the market...

I'll miss that but it's probably for the best :)

[j03]

Our rules and market have not changed in months, we just want to remind everyone of how we regulate the market. :P

[Demon]

With the amount of duped NPs and items the big sellers have, the $2/m limit seems stupid.
If you flood a market with stuff like that, you can't expect the price to stay the same.

[Bettser]

With the amount of duped NPs and items the big sellers have, the $2/m limit seems stupid.
If you flood a market with stuff like that, you can't expect the price to stay the same.

Lol..... the rule is in place so it doesn't get flooded.

[Demon]

Lol..... the rule is in place so it doesn't get flooded.

Just seems like a monopoly to me.
Big sellers deeply rooted in the moderation team and all that.

[Bettser]

Just seems like a monopoly to me.
Big sellers deeply rooted in the moderation team and all that.

Lmfao, this rule has been here for years. Like that is the oldest of the four rules mentioned here. You being here since Jan 2012 should know that also. Anyways, instead of letting people with unlimited neopoints sell for like 0.6$/m and crumble the market even more, we are trying to balance it out like its already been mentioned in this board. You're like contradicting yourself in your own argument which is trying to call out staff lol.

[j03]

Just seems like a monopoly to me.
Big sellers deeply rooted in the moderation team and all that.

First off, you seem to have just walked in here with no clue as to what anything means in terms of the economics and statistics.

You don't fully understand the aftermath of a "dupe" event.

The economy will fix itself. Most items duped are either frozen, used or just rendered cheap and worthless. Not all items were duped making those ones still the same value. In order for the economy to break down there would have to be a public item generating exploit, which did not happen recently.

Trust us, we put these regulations because we know the outcome. It's for the best. I find it insulting to call my way of keeping this game fun and great for everyone "stupid". As a matter of fact, you sound extremely ignorant with the way you posted with, from the looks of it, not knowing what you're talking about.

[Drizzy]

Just seems like a monopoly to me.
Big sellers deeply rooted in the moderation team and all that.

This rule is infuriating to me and it hurts the top sellers the most (you think everyone walks around with MASSIVE amounts of things to sell?) but here we are sacrificing for other people and giving everyone a fair chance then you come on and decide to question our integrity.
We're doing what's best for the economy in the long run and you wanna start throwing conspiracy theories.
Get your facts straight bro cos you sound like a jackass right now.

[Demon]

First off, you seem to have just walked in here with no clue as to what anything means in terms of the economics and statistics.

You don't fully understand the aftermath of a "dupe" event.

The economy will fix itself. Most items duped are either frozen, used or just rendered cheap and worthless. Not all items were duped making those ones still the same value. In order for the economy to break down there would have to be a public item generating exploit, which did not happen recently.

Trust us, we put these regulations because we know the outcome. It's for the best. I find it insulting to call my way of keeping this game fun and great for everyone "stupid". As a matter of fact, you sound extremely ignorant with the way you posted with, from the looks of it, not knowing what you're talking about.



I'm not an economist or statistician no, so please excuse my ignorance in these matters.
It was my understanding that a monopoly was basically exclusive control of a market, in this case Neopets, allowing you to artificially inflate prices for whatever reason. (I know a couple of other sites exist, but none as big as this)

But even in a super simplistic view - Less players + more items/nps = lower prices right?
As a game progresses, and more currency enters the market (duped or not) the value of the currency falls. But in this case it's been artificially inflated to $2/m for 4 years.

I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you guys for no reason, just from a random onlookers perspective that is how it seems.


I'm sorry Joe, but I don't understand what the cost of neopoints has to do with the game being fun, unless you're talking about people having fun selling things?

You've probably been over this a thousand times with other people, so I do understand your distaste at my criticism, perhaps I should have read in to the situation more thoroughly before commenting.

Apologies.

[j03]

I'm not an economist or statistician no, so please excuse my ignorance in these matters.

There you have it. Instead of making assumptions you should have messaged a staff member about your, what should be, opinion.

[I_royalty_I]

It's one of those situations where we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. If we kept the $2/m rule in place in an attempt to level the playing field so that EVERYONE has a chance to sell, people don't like the $2/m rule and think it should be changed. If we got rid of the $2/m rule and the bigger sellers started undercutting the little guys to the point where they have no chance at all to beat our prices, people would think that was ridiculous and wouldn't even want to try anymore. There are pros and cons to each and we have tried to balance the pros with the cons while making ck a welcoming place to everybody.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but like I said in the opening post, this is a decision not a discussion. It has been discussed at length so things aren't going to change anytime soon. But before conclusions are drawn and assumptions are made, take a second to look at the bigger picture. If you have no been around and have no clue about the bigger picture -you don't even know what you don't know- then your argument will not be given much clout.

Perhaps these rules will be revisited once jumpstart/tnt gets their heads out of their asses and more people come flocking back but until then, we'll do what we've gotta do.

[Tapir]

It's one of those situations where we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. If we kept the $2/m rule in place in an attempt to level the playing field so that EVERYONE has a chance to sell, people don't like the $2/m rule and think it should be changed. If we got rid of the $2/m rule and the bigger sellers started undercutting the little guys to the point where they have no chance at all to beat our prices, people would think that was ridiculous and wouldn't even want to try anymore. There are pros and cons to each and we have tried to balance the pros with the cons while making ck a welcoming place to everybody.

I agree, and just wanted to add in that I think this is what a lot of people aren't seeing- I'm not a big time seller by any means, I don't think I've ever even sat on more than 7mil neopoints at once. But if mods truly wanted to create and profit from a "monopoly", why even bother with guildlines? They could just be like lol fuck all yall no limits #yolo and start selling neopoints for like .10/mil. Because if you're sitting on trillions and trillions of neopoints, it wouldn't matter, one could afford to undercut by huge amounts because moving stock would literally just come down to how often you are online and how much you could unload, regardless of the price. And then what would happen is people who had more to unload would end up selling way more, at incredibly low prices, because they are able to maintain that income. And then meanwhile, Casual-Player Cathy (aka me) comes toddling in with a chunk of 4mil neopoints that might have taken months to save up, and selling it would be tedious to impossible because buyers could just go to bigger sellers for larger amounts at measly costs. With a regulation for AB in place it means that someone who can work the market like a pro, or dip into huge savings quickly, or otherwise has access to huge amounts of funds doesn't necessarily have a selling advantage over someone that makes neopoints slowly, or doesn't have a lot to sell. Everything is $2/mil, everything is equal. Everybody wins. :takdir:

even though yeah, as a buyer, I like buying cheap things, having regulations makes sense. its keeping us from becoming animal farm where every seller is equal but some are more equal than others four legs good two legs baaaad

The mods are literally keeping us from descending into an orwellian dystopia filled with talking animals and I, for one, am thankful.

[Sociopath]

Just seems like a monopoly to me.
Big sellers deeply rooted in the moderation team and all that.

It's a popularity contest around here, that's it.

[Tapir]

It's a popularity contest around here, that's it.
idk man, Simmie was pretty popular and look how that turned out

[Sociopath]

idk man, Simmie was pretty popular and look how that turned out

Poor Simmie. Bring back Simmie2015

[c4ndym4n]

Mathematically neopets is screwed, i remember selling nps at 10 dollars a mill and not being able to stock enough. the 2 dollar a mill rule will eventually fall, just like all rules do. its just a waiting game. the cost of items has risen and fallen sooo much that if a player bought 10 gswords back in the day and sold them for 150 mill a piece like they inflated to they would be sitting on 1.5 bill.... i dont know about you but that just seems like an absurd number to even think about. i remember during peak time when there was a cap on how high you could sell nps for on some sites. heres the real economics behind it... do i have money? yes. do i have time? no. is 2 dollars a mill going to break my bank account for something i enjoy doing and occupies my free time? Nah, i have a job. So when i want something that i a.)dont have the time to restock or whatever to get 20 mill or b.) just want to play with do i mind spending 40 bucks? Not really. its still cheaper than a ps4 or xbox 1 game, and i know ill spend more time with that 20 mill item then i will on a game. Price and Value are two different things and no one ever understands that unless they have been taught it. do i think there should be trading limits? No, we arent communist and this isnt Cuba(up until like a month ago). But this isnt my site, and me being a member here is the price i pay for that difference of OPINION. Has Joe and his team of moderators done an awesome job on here? HELL YES. I owned OGCS(for all you old timers) at one point in time and it became an extreme hassle that was not worth my time nor my friends that were involved. Not to mention the LEGAL ramifications i faced and ultimately suffered due to some issues with hotmail and yahoo. So in short, you can log off if you want, no one forced you to come on here.

END RANT.

But seriously, you chose to log in, you chose membership, all choices you make, if you dont like a rule, make a choice not to be a member and not log in. There is much more important stuff that these guys could be doing(program updates, site maint., new and fun things) that you are taking them away from by having to come on here and argue with someone who appears to be lacking the knowledge to make a valid argument. Please for the sake of everyone else who enjoys this community and the people on it. log off.


Yes i know i have horrible grammar and spelling, i also know that i dont care.

[Leet]

Never thought that I would ever see price regulation on UC pets. :O Tbh I have stuff I'd like to sell off, but I'll try to be considerate and do it in a way that doesn't depress the economy any more than it's already hurting. Being a part of this community is a privilege, and the rules are there for a reason.

[Naked Gamer]

Deleted

[cloudxcrash]

I'm not an economist or statistician

Well, I am, and I support the $2/m rule. If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them for you in a PM. :)

[Naked Gamer]

Well, I am, and I support the $2/m rule. If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them for you in a PM. :)

You should help Greece they need it.


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[I_royalty_I]

Mmmm what about Royalties "magic" NP? Something like that is introducing new NP into the market that shouldn't be there making NP more abundant which is worse for the Market.

Maybe this should be banned too since something that can make unlimited NP without a problem is technically a problem for the market with all the new NP introduced.

It's sorter like real world countries printing to much money that shouldn't be there this creates collapse in markets.

No hate on Royalty just saying from a economy point of view for the NP market overall.


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Id say this falls into the category of "you don't know what you don't know" - as in, you probably arent even aware how many "generated" NPs are around. Im not the only one. I see you though, coming at me like this after asking to buy 2b pure for $0.5/m. Mhm, im onto you lol

[Naked Gamer]

Deleted

[I_royalty_I]

Hahaha I knew that was coming! I didn't say I didn't like it. I know theirs plenty out there generated been like that for years.

Generated NP is generated NP not worth $2m Lol just saying XD

I was simply just addressing points as they're grey areas and you guys go on about how you want to help the Neopets economy yet a Mod is generating NP lmao. Just saying.

If they was something in place to take out NP to help more would be good.


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Well yeah, when you call me out for something im going to respond in turn. I really don't mind, Id rather answer questions once. It is something you could have PMed me though. One could make the argument that all inactive NPs, items, pets and accounts should be off limits then too. Those things are inactive and have not been in game for quite awhile, so brining them back shouldn't be allowed because it would hurt the economy. Yeah? I suppose I can see how you'd consider it a grey area, but it's a stretch. What's not a stretch is that im selling it at $2/m as per the ck rules so I don't see an issue.

[Naked Gamer]

Well yeah, when you call me out for something im going to respond in turn. I really don't mind, Id rather answer questions once. It is something you could have PMed me though. One could make the argument that all inactive NPs, items, pets and accounts should be off limits then too. Those things are inactive and have not been in game for quite awhile, so brining them back shouldn't be allowed because it would hurt the economy. Yeah? I suppose I can see how you'd consider it a grey area, but it's a stretch. What's not a stretch is that im selling it at $2/m as per the ck rules so I don't see an issue.

I deleted them I got a good enough answer, if you can completely delete the deleted comments would be good.

Thanks


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[cloudxcrash]

You should help Greece they need it.

Honestly, what Greece needs right now is a psychologist, not an economist.

[Naked Gamer]

Honestly, what Greece needs right now is a psychologist, not an economist.

If America invades them and conquers them then all good what's another war for the U.S. Lol


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[I_royalty_I]

If America invades them and conquers them then all good what's another war for the U.S. Lol


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Keep things on the topic at hand guys, this stuff is irrelevant.
On a side note, Greece doesn't owe the U.S. Money, so we don't care lol

[j03]

I feel like there is no room for discussion anymore. We have made our announcement reflecting on some of our trading regulations and just like the official rules topic, this should be locked.

Just some facts for you guys:

-) I was the first to make this rule for Neopets back in 2010 on my old forum.
-) I managed to get the most popular forums market to follow my steps and put this rule into effect there as well. This was owned by the guy who eventually hated me for joining his trade and running a competing forum.
-) Before this rule, people were selling NP as low as $.40/mill whether it was generated from glitches or hash lists. The market was crashing.
-) So for 5 years and counting we have kept the Neopets market running well.

Is this your one last you're welcome?