Abortion?

[learningtoneopet1]

There was a topic about abortion about 3 years ago, but it hasn't been active in forever, so I figured I would bring it up again since there have been lots of new people in that time and I guess it can be possible to change your opinion.

I think abortion is completely ethical and should be 100% legal. A majority of abortions are done before 12 weeks of pregnancy with the legal limit being 24 weeks. From a pure biological standpoint, a fetus' nervous system isn't even developed until ~ week 25 which is when it begins to rapidly develop. Prior to week 24, the fetus doesn't even have significant bodily functions that define something as being alive. How is not okay to abort it before this point if it doesn't have enough characteristics to classify it as being alive? To me, that's like saying that you can't cut a sandwich in half because it has pumpkin seeds on it (I know, weird metaphor but it's the general idea). If the woman wants an abortion, let her have it. It's her body, she can decide what she wants to do with it and anyone who is against abortion is just enabling discrimination against women by not letting them have a choice regarding their own body. Discuss.

[Aura]

I agree with everything you've said, if a women doesn't feel like she can provide the proper care for her child, or even if she just isn't ready to become a child, that shouldn't be something someone else gets to decide for her. Especially in cases of sexual harassment where the person was forced against their will. A woman's body is her body, and she should have every right to decide what to do with it. :)

[katix]

I agree as well. I had an abortion at ~12 weeks, and it was the best thing I could have done. I was in college, living off top ramen, my boyfriend was not ready - threatened to leave, etc. No way I could raise a baby. Plus I was suffering from insane morning sickness where I even brought a plastic bag with me to my finals to throw up in...(that was embarrassing). I could not continue school with a pregnancy like that. I barely made it through finals. I did not even know I was pregnant until 11 weeks because I was passing the morning sickness (which lasts ALL day, the name is such a lie) off as my usually finals flu/cold that I always get. I even had a small amount of blood which apparently was just the egg implanting or something but I thought it was a period so I didn't even think about a possible pregnancy. I am definitely pro-choice, I was a lucky one and Planned Parenthood funded my abortion after I explained to them that I was a poor as fuck college student. The trying to get them to fund me was a bit difficult though and took a while to convince them. (I am completely guilty of telling them I'd just buy the pill off the silk road for 50$ instead of their 400$ if they didn't help me). Shit happens and humans are sexual beings, I am not going to deny that part of myself. I was on birth control and we used a condom and I still got pregnant. Planned Parenthood also gave me a IUD for free and the sweet sweet anti-nausea pill. <3

Also...A lot of people have this weird assumption that an abortion is like a huge event in a woman's life...it really isn't. I really don't feel like it changed me or anything, it was just a medical procedure not some huge life event only thing it made me consider was to donate my eggs since i saw a pamphlet on the bus ride to Planned Parenthood ahah.

I've gone on to donate an egg to a nice gay couple ^_^ Way I see it is I just fulfilled a human purpose of procreating and spreading my genes without having to even take care of the little bugger. Best deal ever.

[haiqtpi]

I see no reason why someone would be against legalization of abortion. Religion - great, well then don't get one, what right do you have to dictate what is appropriate for others? The other objection comes from peoples farcical notion that fetuses are people and are sentient - plain stupidity. I feel like the people who actually vote on these laws should have proper education in science, the uneducated are given far too much power in policy/decision making. I swear that this world should just be run my scientists

[Tapir]

Also...A lot of people have this weird assumption that an abortion is like a huge event in a woman's life...it really isn't. I really don't feel like it changed me or anything, it was just a medical procedure not some huge life event only thing it made me consider was to donate my eggs since i saw a pamphlet on the bus ride to Planned Parenthood ahah.

This is so true, I never thought about it that way. But there is a stigma that abortions are this gigantic, life changing thing and it sucks the way people will judge the things you do if you had an abortion or assume it will affect you/haunt you forever!! I felt the same way about mine, I don't really think about it anymore than I think about getting my wisdom teeth pulled. But I still am hesitant to tell other people that I had one, unlike wisdom teeth where I would tell anyone, because of the stigma around it. Even people who support abortion will still sometimes act sympathetic and it's very uncomfortable...it's nothing to be sad about! If anything, it would make more sense for them to be sympathetic if I hadn't had one. :takdir: I was NOT ready to be a mom, and "dad" was an awful man..

[Mama Bear]

I am also pro-choice. I strongly believe that it should be a woman's right to choose if she terminates a pregnancy. Be it for financial, social, emotional or physical reasons, the woman herself is in the best position to judge whether or not she should bring another life into this world.

That said, who I am personally would mean I would only have an abortion if the pregnancy was the result of rape or if it would be of risk to myself or the child; I've always been a maternally minded person, so I just couldn't do it myself otherwise. The movie Revolutionary Road has physically affected me more than any other, and I've seen some messed up, banned shit. When the character gave herself a home abortion and you see the blood dripping down onto the perfect white carpet I became physically ill.

While the woman's rights in the situation are undoubtedly paramount, I do feel sad for men whose partners choose to abort against their wishes. Legally I see why this is, as it is the woman's body that is undergoing the trauma and such, but in this society where men are often disparaged for being the uncaring gender, it can be difficult for them. I had a friend who impreginated a girl accidentally; she didn't want to have the child, but he would have been happy to raise it alone, if given the chance. It's a tough situation for all involved.

[Chibicat]

I'm pro abortion in a way that I believe it's every women's choice. However I think it's best to do so at/before 8-12weeks. At twelve weeks (10 weeks since conception) the unborn child, now known as a foetus, is 6-8cm long and weighs about 18 grams. Closed eyelids are distinguishable as the face becomes properly formed. Muscles are growing, making limb movements more pronounced. The foetus is now able to squint, swallow and make a fist; the foetus is responsive to touch. The fingers and toes are fully formed and have nails. Internal and external reproductive organs have become definitely male or female.

[Tapir]

I had a friend who impreginated a girl accidentally; she didn't want to have the child, but he would have been happy to raise it alone, if given the chance. It's a tough situation for all involved.
I understand where you are coming from, but on the flip side I was in a relationship where the guy actually tried to prevent me from getting an abortion because he wanted a kid even though I did not. If there were any sort of laws in place that gave men any rights in the situation of an unwanted pregnancy, I wonder if I would have been so lucky as to have one. And I know my story is not unique.

Even if a man wants to raise it alone, there's still the entirety of the pregnancy to consider (which in my understanding seems long and hellish lmao and is he then going to commit to paying for all the doctors visits? the prenatal vitamins? the special dietary needs?) as well as long lasting health ramifications for the woman after pregnancy. I wonder about the legality of it as well (things like child support). Not to mention the social stigma that people will treat you as "abandoning" or "giving up" your child, I mean just look at the way women who put children up for adoption are treated...

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, my hackles are prob just up because of my own experiences so I'm biased.

[Guy]

Picturing a potential baby of mine being aborted makes me feel sick TBH
I wouldn't try forcing the girl into keeping it, but I def wouldn't be happy about the abortion lol

At the end of the day I wouldn't really have a say in her decision though...even though it takes two to tango :rolleyes:

[|2eap]

Needed to read this. Thanks! +1 for bringing it up.

[Clear]

I agree with everything learningtoneopet1 has stated.

Here's an interesting thought that I came across before: If someone were to be dying, and a blood transfusion would save their life, no one could force anyone to give blood to that person. Even though it's an easy and safe procedure. Even if it would save a life of a fully grown and developed person, it can't be forced on someone.

Why is that, exactly? Because we have something called, "Bodily autonomy" which is the idea that we hold that people should have complete control over their own bodies and above all else, this should never be infringed upon. In respect of this, we aren't even allowed to take organs from DYING/DEAD people in order to save someone else. This is why you must register to be an organ donor.

If you were to ask a woman to give up her bodily autonomy for 9 months against their will in an expensive, invasive and difficult (not to mention painful and debilitating to some levels) process to save what you consider to be a life (which, as learningtoneopet1 has said - this is honestly debatable, since most abortions are done within the first 12 weeks and life is a pretty hard thing to define even when we're not talking about fetuses)...Well, that's just ridiculous when you think about it. And completely unethical. Why is it suddenly different when a fetus is involved? Why do people feel we can force someone to give up their bodily autonomy in this case, but not when something much simpler (like a blood transfusion) is involved? It makes zero sense.

Essentially, it's giving women less bodily autonomy than a dead person.

[Guy]

Why is it suddenly different when a fetus is involved? Why do people feel we can force someone to give up their bodily autonomy in this case, but not when something much simpler (like a blood transfusion) is involved?[/U][/B]

Because you can't get pregnant by yourself ~
Not saying women shouldn't have the choice, but abortion/pregnancy is totally different from a blood transfusion since it involves genetic material from two parties lol

[Tapir]

Because you can't get pregnant by yourself ~
[..] you need genetic material from two parties lol
that literally has nothing to do with it though? its a series of pills that cause a clump of cells to be expelled. why does the origin of those cells matter.

also your weird ~it takes two to tango~ is kind of offensive because sex isn't always between two people that agreed to it.

[Guy]

that literally has nothing to do with it though? its a series of pills that cause a clump of cells to be expelled. why does the origin of those cells matter.

also your weird ~it takes two to tango~ is kind of offensive because sex isn't always between two people that agreed to it.

It takes two people for a person to get preg (male & female). since the resulting fetus or zygote or whatever is made thru a team effort, so why shouldn't the male get a say in what happens to his genetic material?? Isn't that infringing on his "bodily autonomy" too? lol

That's why I'm saying a blood transfusion and an abortion aren't comparable in this case ~

& I'm only talking about normal pregnancy cases btw not things like rape where the pregnancy was forced.

I hope I explained that properly lol it's like 4 am for me rn

[Clear]

It shouldn't matter. The woman agreed to sex - not to giving up her body for 9 months.
Just because it's "her own fault" as you're more or less implying doesn't mean she should be forced to give up her rights to bodily autonomy. And in many (if not most) cases, women who don't want children were using protection that failed, had a lack of knowledge (usually from age) or were raped.
We do not punish people with things of this caliber just because they did something stupid.

The woman aborting a fetus does not encroach on a guy's bodily autonomy, as the fetus itself isn't what's in question here but rather the woman's body as a vessel. It's not forcing the man to do anything with his body that he doesn't want to do. His sperm, once it's left his body, is no longer his to have any say over. Evident clearly in how women are allowed to dig through trash cans and take disposed condoms and use the semen to impregnate themselves. Crazy and fucked up, but legal.

Edit to add: Though I want to be clear, I do think it's unfortunate that men can't have a say in children. But, the woman has a higher investment and so she gets to choose. However, I especially find it unfair for men who don't want kids but the woman chooses to keep them and then the male must pay child support for 18 years. Sucks but what can you do. :/

[Virus]

I believe that women do deserve the right to abort pregnancy if they don't feel like they'll be able to provide efficiently for the child, or if they just don't want it in general.

Men should have some say in what happens to the fetus too, however. But, if a case like this does arise the man should take full legal responsibility of the child once it is born, and pay for any medical bills that the woman would otherwise have to pay if she was alone and having the child, kind of like the adoption where the birthmother gives the child away and opts to never see them.

If it's a couple, then I don't see how it would be any issue. If they get pregnant, and the woman doesn't want to have the baby, they probably wouldn't stay together very long afterwards lol.

[k80]

and life is a pretty hard thing to define
It isn't really, but when you get down to it every cell is "life" including the eggs and sperm that get flushed/trashed on a daily basis. :)

I remember being pro-life (anti-choice) in high school, having been a good little religious virgin following the straight and narrow for the longest time. "If she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have had sex!" (basically "She should accept the punishment (baby, shame) for her wrongdoing(sexing)" Hellooooo Scarlet Letter!) Now, 10+ years later I have plenty of sex and still have no desire for a baby. Over the years I have taken an interest in this issue, reading stories from women with every experience under the sun. For some it's a huge decision, some it's just a medical procedure. For some women the pregnancy was healthy but unwanted, some it was wanted but unhealthy. Some regretted aborting, some regretted not aborting. It all comes down to a thousand or more variables individual to each case, and there will never be laws that satisfy all of them. To me it comes down to the woman in question making the decision that is best for her individual situation, under the care of a licensed and caring physician and staff. "If she hadn't had sex" the "baby" wouldn't exist anyway, and I do not believe in souls/consciousness/self-awareness pre-viability.

Myself, if I were to find myself pregnant today I am not sure what I would do. I'm happily married, employed, settled, and financially secure. I have not decided if I want children ever, and certainly not yet. I have both the choice available to me to get insured medical care to see the pregnancy through, AND the financial stability to fly myself somewhere I could get abortion care (because my state has ridiculous hoops to jump through). But I am an anomaly, and many many many many women do not have either of those options. I believe they should.

[Targaryen]

I think I'm the only one here who is pro-life. o.0

I personally believe that once the baby has its own heart beat, brain, and features well that really is a human being. I don't hate anyone who has an abortion because its not me and I can't make choices for others. But I know of a few women who have had abortions and regretted it tremendously. Being a parent isn't for everyone but if you can you should always try your best to stay protected so its not something that you even have to make a choice on. And yes you can always bring up the fact someone could of been raped and I can understand 100 percent why someone would terminate the pregnancy because of the memories and horror the child would remind you of.
But personally the thought of ever loosing one of my own children especially at my owns hands would destroy me.
I found out I was about seven weeks pregnant in tenth grade. I was in love with the dad (we are happily married now) and really wanted to start a family one day. I know I shouldn't of been screwing around at sixteen but...HORMONES HAPPEN. I had a few of his family members mention the option of an abortion to me because my mom wouldn't "ever let me see him again if they found out".
That still was never an option for me though. Because I did the tango it was my responsibility. That baby was its own little being and couldn't make a choice for himself. So I dabbled at the idea of adoption but honestly the further along I became the more I fell in love with that little human being I was growing. Pregnancy can be TERRIBLE don't get me wrong. You feel like shit and hurt in places you've never hurt before..and lets not even talk about the stretch marks that magically appear all over your poor body. But there are many things that are completely extraordinary about it! Feeling the baby move for the first time, going to see that little being grown at doctors appointments, oh and getting away with eating way more then you really should be. :p

Honestly once you meet that little person for the first time its the most magical feeling. I think in ways having my son saved me from continuing to be a stupid teenager. He's seriously the most amazing person I've ever met. He's so smart for his age and every day with him is a gift. He shares my love for pokemon, neopets, dragons and so much more. I almost lost him when he was four months old and it was the most EXTREME pain I have ever felt in my entire life. He brings me and the rest of my family so much joy and if I chose to abort him I don't think I'd be as happy as I am today. :) That's just my little story and thoughts on abortion.

I hope I didn't offend anyone because that wasn't my intent at all. Just wanted to share because I'm bored and both my boys are napping. ^^

[Fleur]

I am pro-choice, since I don't really care what anyone else does with their body.

I would prefer using contraceptives to prevent getting pregnant in the first place, but shit happens, hey.

[Tapir]

It takes two people for a person to get preg (male & female). since the resulting fetus or zygote or whatever is made thru a team effort, so why shouldn't the male get a say in what happens to his genetic material?? Isn't that infringing on his "bodily autonomy" too? lol

That's why I'm saying a blood transfusion and an abortion aren't comparable in this case ~

& I'm only talking about normal pregnancy cases btw not things like rape where the pregnancy was forced.

I hope I explained that properly lol it's like 4 am for me rn

Not really. Bodily autonomy is the right to decide what happens to your own body- what happens to it, how it's used, things like that. So no, what happens to Girl A's body doesn't infringe on the bodily autonomy of Boy B. Unless they're like conjoined twins or something and sharing a body, in which case they probably have bigger issues. Nothing is happening to his body without his consent. But if B decides "hey, I want that baby inside of A!" and A decides "no, I don't want a baby", then B goes "well too bad, I want the baby, so you're going to keep it"- that means that A's rights are being infringed upon. She's being forced or coerced to have something done to her body (being put through a pregnancy) that she does not want. Nothing is happening to the boy's body, so none of his rights are being infringed on.

Rape and forced pregnancies aren't the only situations where an unwanted pregnancy could occur. Sometimes birth control is tampered with, or lied about, or purposefully withheld. Plus, just consenting to sex isn't automatically consenting to have a child.

The blood transfusion metaphor is pretty apt, because at the core of both situations you're basically making the call "should someone other than the owner of a body get to decide what happens to that body?". I mean...should your mom get a say in whether or not you get a flu shot? You're made up of half her genetic material, she was half of your birth (you being born and her giving birth), so by that logic she should get to decide since it was a team effort that brought you into this world.

(And anyway, if the issue is that the boy/man in the situation has some kind of right to the zygote because it's half his genes or whatever, then he can just have the fetus after it's aborted. If its his property then by all means take it, I don't see why he would have some inherent right for it to be incubated for 9 months lol.)

[katix]

I really don't understand why people think its awful that if a woman doesn't want the pregnancy and the man does that people think its okay to force her to give up her body for 9 months, but not just her body. Pro-life often argues that the woman should just choose adoption if she does not want the baby. Problem is, women get sick, have pains, and much more during a pregnancy. For example, for me at just ~12 weeks I was having acute morning sickness which I am 100% sure hindered my school work and college education. If I had been forced to carry to term I would have probably had to have withdraw from the upcoming semester. If I stood up longer than 2 mins I would puke which means that would have also hindered my job if I had one back then. I could not eat and keep it down. I lost 16 lbs during those 12 weeks of pregnancy because of the morning sickness.

What gives anyone the right to force me to put my life on hold and suffer like that for 9 months? I believe that the women should get 100% of the say on an abortion. If the man wants the kid than he can take it and incubate it in his uterus. Oh wait. He doesn't have one. Until science can have the man carry the child without forcing the women to undergo any type of surgery, pain, or otherwise inconvenience than the woman should get the say as it is absolutely asking her to give up her bodily autonomy for 9 months.

[Lazuli]

in 8th grade i, as well as most of my class, was blinded into believing that abortion was nothing but evil baby killing. for a few years i was incredibly pro-life lol and it was disgusting
i have zero maternal instinct, so getting pregnant for me would pretty much ruin everything.

what most "pro-lifers" like LeafeonQueen dont really understand is pro-life itself means they are against ALL abortion, not JUST for themselves. the fact that she wouldn't get one ever, but would be okay and not offended if any other woman does means she's still pro-choice.
pro-life is movement driven by hateful people giving out false information and guilt tripped pregnant woman to keep a baby they don't want to/are incapable of, etc.

[Clear]

Very true, Sableye. Pro-choice indicates that you believe in a CHOICE to abort OR TO KEEP. Just because you would personally choose to keep does not mean you are pro-life, if you believe that others have the right to choose not to keep. If you believe that aborting is wrong, and no one should choose to do this, THEN you are pro-life.

Luckily for me, I grew up in a very liberal place and it wasn't something that was ever shoved down my throat. But pro-lifers have a tendency to try to guilt/persuade women into having children they don't want by saying things to scare them. Such as, having an abortion makes it harder to have kids in the future, a majority of women regret their decision to abort, etc. (These are untrue just fyi).

[Roslyn]

Early abortions, sure. But later abortions should not be okay, unless mother's life is at risk/severe genetic defect/ect.

Abortion is one of those topics I quit trying to debate. No matter how shiny you think your lists of pros and cons are, you're probably not going to convince those who feel equally as strong about their own lists. Intelligent discussions are nice I suppose, but a truly intelligent person would be able to see the perspective of both sides of the spectrum no matter where he or she stands. In my humble opinion, anyway.

[TwistyBR]

i tottally agree with you, will someday everyone think like us?

[AleeSohma]

I think this is better than leting them born and have a life they don't deserve, also if they let them get born, the criticism get worst when people normally don't know reasons, I think this is ok but don't let it go until the final months or something like that

[riedy]

Every women should have the right to choose what to do with her body. No women owes her body to anything.

[Uptown]

To me, the damning argument in favor of abortion is that when you make it illegal, women don't stop having them. The abortion rate stays the same and the mortality rate from abortion goes up. Women lose their lives, and sometimes fertility, over botched, unsafe abortions.

Nobody argues that fetuses are human. At least, I don't think they should. Being able to bond with an infant is a modern privilege given to us by medicine. Most of us are horrified by the idea of babies and children dying. I think it's sad, but I also think there's a moral argument in favor of ending a human life when it's neither sentient nor wanted. We, and our foster care system, don't have unlimited resources to take care of everyone.

And there are a lot of us. We should focus on taking care of the ones who are already here.

[chenszc]

Every women should have the right to choose what to do with her body. No women owes her body to anything.


Damn right. That and I feel that women should not give birth if they arent ready for it. Be it financially or mentally/emotionally. It's just unfair to the child if he/she ends up being born and is not treated right.

[haiqtpi]

Every women should have the right to choose what to do with her body. No women owes her body to anything.

While I am totally pro choice, I do not even agree for those reasons. I just cannot for the life (no pun intended) of me understand why people think that in the case of abortion, it is ok to tell someone that they cannot have one. If you are anti abortion..dont get one? The whole argument against abortion is so illogical in terms of it being policy. So you want to make it illegal for a woman to get an abortion because it is murder etc, and yet, in this country, police cannot be properly brought to justice for homicide? How about the question of what happens to an unwanted child? Oh they live in foster care/are resented by their parents if they decide to keep? Yeah, because the statistics on mental health and foster care are totally suggesting that the experience doesnt fuck them up at all...oh wait.

My point is that it doesn't matter what the reason is, abortion should be legal. It isnt even a matter of womens rights to me, its just simple logic. I have not see a single argument that doesn't revolve around religion, it is idiotic. It is just like the whole anti stem cell people in this country...well here is some perspective..IRAN allows stem cell research - BOOM, mind blown.

I think that part of the reason why so much resistence is made in this country may be the direction that pro choice advocates are taking, while it is totally correct to suggest that our mostly male legislature has NO right to tell women what they can do with their bodies, I think that the arguments should be made even more logical and not about sex. I see the resistance to abortion similar to the whole race v police training issue in this country. If you make it about race, people are a lot more hesitant and resistant to change, while if you make it a matter of police training, things get done a lot quicker. If you simply make abortion about logic and statistics, then it is pretty hard to be against it in terms of creating policy. If you dont like it, dont get one....

You know, the funny thing is that right wing nutjobs like to talk a lot about the founding fathers, the tea party likes to dress in similar fashion as they did, and yet they have ZERO understanding of these actual people and their philosophies. The amount of religious nonsense in American politics is mind-blowing, enough to force me to drink when I think about it. The world would be such a better place if people stopped trying to tell others what they should do, who they should marry, etc, and focused more on the sick, the starving, the poor, and certainly, education (see Trump supporters).

I guess that live and let live is just too boring of a philosophy for some people.

[Misha]

If it doesn't affect me personally, I don't give a fraction of a shit about it. You do you, and I'll do me.

[Aska]

Well I am pro choice.

I can't carry a baby to term and I was told by multiple doctors this. So if I was dumb enough to stop my BC and got preggo, I would choose to end it because I don't want to go through trying to carry him/her to full term all to lose the life because of my fucked up organs.

[Lenars]

I am pro choice.
Women should have the option to abort or not abort.
My sister had one when she was just fresh out of college, if she didn't, she probably wouldn't be as successful as she is today with her happy family and a really nice house over their heads.

On top of that, I don't understand anyone who is pro-life but won't offer to adopt the baby or assist in any way.
A baby honestly does take a village to raise. Any single parent who goes through it without help, I give props to them.

[Elizaa]

I agree with OP.
Abortion should be legal. While I would never get one, I think it's up to the person with the baby.
Some peoples' lives are at risk if they have a baby, some can't afford it, ect..

[Pitoruke]

I am pro choice

[Herb]

Don't even get me started I had to go through abortion about 3 years ago when I was with my ex
I couldn't tell my parents as they would be furious and will lecture me, for hours as they do whenever I do something wrong
I was still in education that time and I chosen to put my studies first, I didn't have a job or money to even keep the baby, my parents wont help me as they are very strict.
I have thought about this a lot before I proceeded with the abortion.
My ex was in education too and he didn't have a job he even said he wasn't ready for that yet. He was going with whatever I decided to do.

I know why people see it as wrong but if you think about it if you think ahead you don't want your baby / child to have a shit future or a bad life because you wont be able to afford diapers and there food, let alone there clothes and other things they need.

[Poogles]

I am totally for adoption, if a woman doesn't want a baby, she doesn't. Children are brats and can take away too much fun of your lfe especially when you're young

[Sci_Girl]

Pro choice.

That said I do believe a smarten-the-fuck-up education is needed for people, especially teens. For Pete's sake if you have sex please do so with some form of protection. If you choose to have unprotected sex and get pregnant or get a girl pregnant that is your own fault. Having sex means the possibility of pregnancy, if that is not common knowledge that individual should not be having sex. I get it that children cannot financially or maybe mentally afford to have children but honestly too many need to wake up. If you choose to have unprotected sex then there is a good chance you will end up pregnant. Simple as that. If you choose to have sex then fine, but please please use protection especially the young people. If that still ends up with pregnancy then unfortunately you are a member of the failure group (fail in regards to whatever birth control method, not fail as a person). Regardless of how a woman gets pregnant I still fully support pro choice.

[Naked Gamer]

Depends on persons situation I would say maybe give power to doctors so allow it through a application process depending on that persons situation or events leading up to it.

I'm against it but my above statement I would accept that too because some people just are in a bad spot or like get raped and don't want that kid which I can agree on.


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[lisaasil12]

This is how I think about abortion:
1. How do people know the child does not yet have a soul? Would you blow up a building not knowing if there were people inside (and you can't go inside to check if there is someone in there)? No, you wouldn't.
2. Would you punish a child for what the father does wrong? (Like: Would you go to prison because your father stole something?) Then why punish the unborn child if the mother is raped or anything?
3. If you don't want the child, there are many people who do. You can give him/her to a loving family etc.
4. If the child is very ill and he/she could only live until he/she was about 5 years you can still make him/her happy with his/her life, and isn't that what life is all about, being happy?

---------- Post added at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 AM ----------

And I highly recommend the youtube movie: 180. It's made by living waters and it's about abortion etc.

[Sci_Girl]

4. If the child is very ill and he/she could only live until he/she was about 5 years you can still make him/her happy with his/her life, and isn't that what life is all about, being happy?

Depends on the condition, not all can be helped with surgery or some meds. Some conditions will cause the parents to see their child go from born and smiling to still, completely mute, and seizing. It is not a life to have if that life being wasted away and suffering before your eyes. That child will never be able to say I love you, never be able to give a hug, never be able to play. They can be in pain during those 5 years of life. There are conditions like that. And genetic testing can find out early on if that child is on their way to such a life.

[Raichuu]

I'd like to say I'm indifferent.
Morally, and for myself, I would say pro-life.
However, I do not feel it is my right to say someone else cannot do something to themselves. Therefore, ethically, I am inclined to say pro-choice.

As I mentioned, though, morally I never would abort. I feel as I am responsible for making this thing, and I do see it as a living being, so I should at least give it the chance to live. Perhaps not with me, but a life nonetheless.

[Kit]

I'm definitely pro-choice, as I think women should be able to do what they want with their body. However, I think there are some other things to take into consideration. For example, if the boy who impregnated her wants the child (particularly a boyfriend or husband), I do think she should have to have the child. It's not fair for her to take the potential child away from the man, who wants to care for it. But I think that's a very sensitive topic. Because if the girl REALLY doesn't want the child, having the child because the bf/husband wants it could end the relationship (as she doesn't want a child, but he does). Or if she doesn't want to be pregnant for 9 months (for whatever reason), then it's torture to put her through that just because of the guy.
So it's going to be unfair for one person or the other. I've heard of cases like this going to court, and sometimes the girl is allowed to get an abortion, and other times she's required to have the child (though some will get an abortion, anyways).



At my university, we always have pro-life people set up posters and such around our campus without warning, and they just plaster these horrible pictures all over the place and scream in your face if you say you're pro-choice. So every time this happens, people start debates about this topic all over campus and our websites and FB pages xD they set up last Thursday, so it's been fun reading all of the posts and hearing about it in the halls.

[littlespacecase]

Yeah my stance on abortion tends to be towards bodily autonomy. Bodily autonomy is the law that states that no person can use any part of another person's body without their consent, even if the offending party would die as a result.

Basically this means that if you have a brother that needs a liver, you can refuse to donate even though it would save your brother's life. Your brother can't even use your liver after you have died unless you stated before death that you were okay with it.

Neither babies nor fetuses have the right to use a person's womb if they don't want to allow it. It's highly invasive to suggest that any person should have to have a living thing growing inside them against their will...

[gilly777]

I believe a woman should have the right to choose whether to keep the child or not, since it is her body and her life that will be altered by it. Pro-life people say that you should choose adoption over abortion but I'm fairly certain that to be forced to keep a child you have not wanted, carry it nine month and then give it away is actually a far more destructive experience than having an abortion when you're only a few weeks along.
When I was working in obstetrics I have seen to many young women pregnant or already the mothers of children they were incapable of taking care of because they did not have the maturity and the means to do so. If you cannot or do not want to raise a child you should have the right not to have it and nobody should be able to prevent you from making that choice.

[Ariella]

(I didn't read the whole thread oops)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
^ This is pretty much how I feel about it. If I ever had an unwanted pregnancy, I am not sure I could go through with it -- but I sure as heck support the freedom to choose, because fuck those legislators who think it's any of their business what someone else does with their body.


2. Would you punish a child for what the father does wrong? (Like: Would you go to prison because your father stole something?) Then why punish the unborn child if the mother is raped or anything?
Because we live in a country that gives visitation rights to rapists ([Only registered and activated users can see links] cruel_the_law_can_be/). Asking your question a different way: why punish the mother for being raped by saddling her with (potentially) a lifetime of raising a child with her rapist?


I'm definitely pro-choice, as I think women should be able to do what they want with their body. However, I think there are some other things to take into consideration. For example, if the boy who impregnated her wants the child (particularly a boyfriend or husband), I do think she should have to have the child. It's not fair for her to take the potential child away from the man, who wants to care for it. (*My own emphasis added)
This is still putting the desires of the man above the desires of the woman about her own body, though. Is it fairer to make her give birth to a child she doesn't want, putting her body through the trauma from which it might not fully recover ([Only registered and activated users can see links])? There are also neurological changes that occur in the brain for new mothers ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), should she also have to deal with that? What about the risk of postpartum depression ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) the man is asking her to chance for a child she doesn't want? Pregnancy complications ([Only registered and activated users can see links])? Her body is going to have some major changes, and possibly health risks, regardless of whether not she's keeping the child. What if he has a panic attack in the delivery room and decides he isn't ready to be a father, leaving her with a child she didn't want in the first place? Delivery shows you some disgusting stuff you cannot unsee. He would not be the first new father to completely panic... stranger things have happened. I'll have to disagree with you here.


Pro-life people say that you should choose adoption over abortion but I'm fairly certain that to be forced to keep a child you have not wanted, carry it nine month and then give it away is actually a far more destructive experience than having an abortion when you're only a few weeks along.
Exactly.

[Bexxie]

What another woman does with her body is none of my business. I do believe or would hope that if a woman got an abortion that it was as early as possible. Other than that I couldn't give my 2 cents to something that isn't under my control.

Would I get an abortion? No, I wouldn't. I personally could never get over the guilt of it. I got attached to my babies really fast. I still even have some guilt over the miscarriage of my first pregnancy, which I know was beyond my control.

[MrNokezo]

Well, here (the country i live) there is a huge debate over it, as many women die everyday on illegal abortion clinics. I am totally pro-choice. For me there is no point on force a life to come in unstructured family that will not enjoy a baby. Over here, some people think that granting the right of abortion for everyone, they will "be forced" to abort.

[gilly777]

Well, here (the country i live) there is a huge debate over it, as many women die everyday on illegal abortion clinics. I am totally pro-choice. For me there is no point on force a life to come in unstructured family that will not enjoy a baby. Over here, some people think that granting the right of abortion for everyone, they will "be forced" to abort.

Well I don't know about your country but in France abortion has been authorized since 1975 and I don't think that women feel forced to abort because of it. Even under aged girls are given the choice, their parents cannot force them to do it against their will. Of course their is a process in place to prevent such things: interview with doctors before the procedure, counselling... It is made clear to the patient that she can change her mind until the very last moment without having to justify herself in any way. If someone was trying to force a girl to have an abortion, I don't think the surgeon would go along with it.

[MrNokezo]

gilly777 I think i expressed myself bad. I meant that one of the most used argue of "pro-life" people from here is that they would never abort, and this makes no sense at all, as no one is asking them to do it.

[gilly777]

gilly777 I think i expressed myself bad. I meant that one of the most used argue of "pro-life" people from here is that they would never abort, and this makes no sense at all, as no one is asking them to do it.

So they refuse to be Pro-choice because they want people to respect their choice ? That's not very logical XD

[direwolf]

This post is quite old but reading through it, it makes me sad how insensitive some people are. I am 100000% pro choice and while I would never have an abortion myself(simply because I get upset stepping on an ant), I would never condemn others.

HOWEVER, some of the posts I've read on here seem very anti-male. Of course no man can or should force a woman to keep a child she doesn't want. Of course she signed up for sex, not 9 months of pregnancy. That said, the unborn child is what you make of it.. Like, yes, it's just a clump of cells. But for someone who *wants* to keep it, it's a future child in their eyes.

It is a difficult situation all around because there really is no *fair* solution. It's not fair for the mother to keep it, and she shouldn't if she doesn't want to. At the same time, I don't like how people are acting like the father can't be upset at all about it? :/ For example, you wouldn't tell someone who miscarries(assuming they want the child) in the first trimester that it was "just a cluster of cells".

I'm not saying every woman should oblige the male's wishes and have the child. Because at the end of the day, it is her body. But it also is important, in my opinion, to realize that two people are involved not only physically - but mentally and emotionally as well. And this is obviously not including situations where the partner is abusive and using the pregnancy as a leash. But there are definitely healthy relationships out there where one partner wants an abortion and one doesn't.

I mean, on the flip side, if the mom wants the child and the father isn't ready - he doesn't get much of a choice in that either. And again, I do NOT think a man should be able to force a women into an abortion (or even be devoid of financial responsibility, because then so many children would suffer). But it's just a really confusing and complicated situation that I think, even now as we move to a more liberal time, people only see one side of (whether it be the female's side, or the male's)

[m4s]

Think I am a mix of pro-life and pro-choice.

Personally, I am pro-life. I get very squeamish whenever I see people fishing, squashing insects and even eating fish roe. Heck, I can never understand why people do these because its a life they just ended. So no matter what, I doubt that I'll be getting an abortion. Hopefully, that is.

That being said, I believe that every woman should have the right to decide abortion. It's their life, it's their choice, and who am I to stop them? If she felt that she is unable to support the child due to the child being diagnosed with illness etc then maybe its kinder to abort. The child doesn't need to suffer.

[Daeran]

My personal opinion is Pro-Life. Because despite the fact that a baby is just a clump of cells in the beginning, those cells are teeming with life and if given a chance could be come a great person. To each their own opinion, but I do not believe in that practice being used just because someone doesn't "want" a child. That is what adoption exists for. To give a child a home somewhere else. Now when it comes to cases of life and death to the mother...