#YesAllWomen

[boomer]

I'm sure most people have seen, but in case you haven't: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

This comes after the horrible killing spree in Santa Barbara, but the issue goes further than this one murderer and his acts of violence.

Thoughts on misogyny? Rape culture? The invisible and unspoken fears that I think yes all women have thought about even if they have never been directly subjected to?


Personally, I have always lived in what statistically can be called "safe" cities in the US.
I still feel uncomfortable walking alone late at night. Some weekend nights when I ended up staying late in the library, I always called the campus police or a guy friend to walk me home.

I went on a hike once and it took longer than I thought. On the dark trail I saw a man. I had to walk past him, trying not to make eye contact. Once I was past him I looked over my shoulder every 10 seconds until I was safe in my car. He was probably just a harmless stranger, but there's always a chance that he wasn't.

I've been catcalled and wolf whistled to walking down the street by strangers I never saw. I was in high school then, not even 16.

I am studying my ass off in school to have a career in science. One day I will have a Ph.D., one of the highest academic degrees a person can earn.
But I know I will always be questioned for my ability to perform my job because of my sex, and that I will probably never be paid as much as my male colleagues.
And isn't it fucked up that I KNOW this and accept this as fact? And that I don't really know what to do about it?

Just a few personal examples. I am sure many women have much, much, much worse.

Feel free to share your own if you are comfortable.

And if you are a man, this is not hating on the male sex. We know not all men do bad things or think of women with any disrespect.

I think the dam just broke, and now women are sharing what we all think about from time to time and what most men probably didn't even know. When you see a woman talk or hug a strange man, sometimes it's not because she is welcoming him or that she is a slut...it's that it may be more dangerous to refuse outright. We give fake phone numbers. We make up fake boyfriends. We travel in groups to the restroom. We all know how to hold keys between our knuckles as if an inch of dull metal will save us.

[Banannie]

I live on a pretty safe street during the day, but I wouldn't walk around at night. Shy and quiet girl, so a lot of the guys that approach me may be creepers, it's hard to tell... I won't go home with a guy at the bar. Seattle is a pretty safe city, I feel like, but there's still that chance something can happen. It's one of my greatest fears.

[I_royalty_I]

If I saw a man or a woman on a dark trail after a hike, I'd look over my shoulder too.. there are some sketchy people that hang out in the woods I'm sure.

I think we live in a time when women will get paid the same amount as men. I mean, issues have been pushed pretty far in our generation, and I don't think that's too far off, it's already happening many places. There are still times when you hear women say they don't get paid the same amount for the same work, but the same can probably be said for men in some places too.

Whenever I hear things like this, I always read it as hate towards men, I'm not really sure how else to read it as.

I do think it's pretty shitty that women have to live with fears like that though, you would think society would have "grown up" by now.

[boomer]

People do say a lot of the pay discrepancy also comes from women not wanting to be aggressive and ask for higher pay.
Yes, partly that is the woman's fault for not being braver and more risk oriented.
But it's hard to think that way for a lot of them who were raised hearing "be a good girl now" which implies being nice and quiet and listening and safe.

It really isn't hate for men, that is a label many people who call for women's rights etc. get and while I do think some extreme feminists do feel that way I think most women are just at some level exasperated with this pervasive culture that sort of treats women as a commodity.

Maybe a silly example, but,
It can be said women in media are there to be pretty first, and to be people second.

A guy vlogger on Youtube gets comments about the stupid shit he may say. There may be hate for him but it would be about what he said.
A girl vlogger would more likely get comments about whether guys would "do" her. If there's hate for her it is probably less about what she said and more about if she's not pretty.

No resentment for the guy vlogger in this scenario, but if you were the girl in the video trying to get a point across and all people cared about was how pretty or not you look...wouldn't you be frustrated?

[k80]

I think it's great that this is being talked about everywhere. There's an analogy I saw on Twitter: "10% of the M&Ms in the bowl are poisoned. Go ahead, take a handful." While misogynists and sexual assaulters are a minority, they are still there and they are far from rare. Approached at the bar, we bow our heads and feign politeness because we know that Very Bad Things happen to some women and the only control we feel we have in the situation is to try our hardest not to offend him just in case he's a Bad Man. Often we don't even realize the reason we do it because it's such a natural part of acting like a woman. Be Nice Until I Find My Escape Route - a friend, an employee, or as a last resort, a bathroom trip or fake phonecall. When we get married our first defense to the bar-patron is to say "I'm married" and the man backs off. "I'm not interested" gets nowhere near the same success rate, because a man is more willing to back away from another man's "territory" than respect a woman's declaration of disinterest. And it's totally stupid. (obviously "not all men" but it's the M&M analogy - we just don't know and it's simply not rare so we still do it)

We are taught to always watch our drink, hold our keys between our knuckles, check the back seat of our car before we get in, what types of shoes we wear can be used as a weapon. Why is this not taught to men? Because these crimes continue to happen to women vastly more than to men. Why do the questions always come out as "Why was she in that neighborhood?" "Why was she wearing that clothing?" "Why was she alone?". She, she, she. Her fault, her fault, her fault. WTF?!

For the longest time we tried to prevent rape by telling girls what to do and not do, wear and not wear, instead of telling boys not to goddamn rape people. And also what counts as consent or not. There are droves of people who still think that a girl who willingly got drunk with friends while wearing a skirt suddenly gave consent to every penis in the room. Because she "should have known better". Should have known that the penises in the room act on their own accord and the only way to prevent them from entering her is her own constant preventative action. Not, I dunno, the brain of the person with the penis doing the raping. Lately there's been a push for parents of teens to talk to their boys about rape/consent as well. That's great, but it's just the beginning. 1 in 5 women are sexually assaulted and that statistic just floors me. Something obviously needs to be done, and talking about it is the first step. Yay #yesallwomen


Edit: Good article I saw on facebook today, where I got a few of my points from: [Only registered and activated users can see links] _so_hard_for_men_to_recognize.html

[I_royalty_I]

People do say a lot of the pay discrepancy also comes from women not wanting to be aggressive and ask for higher pay.
Yes, partly that is the woman's fault for not being braver and more risk oriented.
But it's hard to think that way for a lot of them who were raised hearing "be a good girl now" which implies being nice and quiet and listening and safe.

It really isn't hate for men, that is a label many people who call for women's rights etc. get and while I do think some extreme feminists do feel that way I think most women are just at some level exasperated with this pervasive culture that sort of treats women as a commodity.

Maybe a silly example, but,
It can be said women in media are there to be pretty first, and to be people second.

A guy vlogger on Youtube gets comments about the stupid shit he may say. There may be hate for him but it would be about what he said.
A girl vlogger would more likely get comments about whether guys would "do" her. If there's hate for her it is probably less about what she said and more about if she's not pretty.

No resentment for the guy vlogger in this scenario, but if you were the girl in the video trying to get a point across and all people cared about was how pretty or not you look...wouldn't you be frustrated?

On the same note, guys in media are handsome, sexy, hot, whatever adjective you wanna toss out there first, and people second too. Don't tell me those abercrombie models and such are hired because of their stellar personality :P

Same thing with people on youtube, vine, etc. There are always females commenting about similar things, I see it all the time.

I understand your point and where youre coming from, just playing the devils advocate a bit.

As with always though, the few bad apples give everyone a bad name. I'm all for everybody being treated equally, equal pay for equal work, all that stuff as well. Fair is fair and I think people deserve that. After reading some of the posts on that #YesAllWomen page, I'm facepalming all over the place.

[boomer]

Of course do not mean to downplay all the domestic violence and social pressures on men, at all.
That is not that that twitter tag is supposed to be about.

Just, every time women's rights come up so do the "well it's bad for men, too, ya know!".
And yes, yes it is. There are lots of issues there. Men who are harassed don't even get as much sympathy, and that is sad. Men are pressured to be the breadwinners, and when they aren't there is shame and all those bad feelings and social stigma. Men in media have awesome abs or chiseled chins and some real men feel inadequate in the face of all of that.

But while not completely separate issues, it is still a different side of the issue that is not the main point of THIS particular tag and not what all those women are talking about.

I think it is possible to debate one without casting the other into shadow.
But of course once something opens up to this many people there are bound to be lots of different thoughts and no one will agree with it all.

[Banannie]

I'm cautious and sensible about being around certain men, but I wouldn't say that I hate them or have a fear of them in general. I'm always with a group of people if I go out drinking, and the guys that I've dated are usually friends of friends. It does suck sometimes if I want to go for a walk and it's dark outside, so I just chill at home because of the fear of being harassed. I've only met two bad apples in my life, the rest were really nice dudes.

Sometimes a sig. other can be abusive mentally and parasitic w/ your money. Those guys are really crappy. *raspberry* I've seen girls be really abusive, too, and they don't seem to notice that they are hurting the guy's feelings, or putting him down around his friends and stuff. Sometimes they freak out and beat the guy up and he won't hit back because he's taught never to hit a girl and not to be a pussy.

It happens more often with women, statistically, but I think that there needs to be more awareness of abuse and entitlement problems in general.

[GKBrendan]

I am a guy, 200 lbs and built, I get nervous every time I walk by someone at night when I am alone.

Also with a phd in science I just want to let you know that most corporations tend to hire women more than men, they like diversity and there a few female phd holders in science (chemistry, biology, or whatever you are doing). The same goes for minorities. I feel like the only advantage of being a guy is if the person hiring is a guy and thinks guys are smarter and will do better at the job (old people thinking)

[Benny]

I am a guy, 200 lbs and built, I get nervous every time I walk by someone at night when I am alone.

Also with a phd in science I just want to let you know that most corporations tend to hire women more than men, they like diversity and there a few female phd holders in science (chemistry, biology, or whatever you are doing). The same goes for minorities. I feel like the only advantage of being a guy is if the person hiring is a guy and thinks guys are smarter and will do better at the job (old people thinking)

Just wanted to let you know that it isn't just "old people thinking" that men are smarter/more qualified for their jobs. Plenty of young adults feel that way even if it's subconscious. Women in positions of power are also more likely to be seen as "bossy/bitchy" whereas men doing their jobs well are seen as powerful, strong, a good leader, etc.

Us men are certainly disadvantaged in some sectors, but those have more to do with child custody laws, the fact that women get lesser sentences for committing the same crimes as men, the fact that almost no one will believe a man that says he's being physically abused by his wife, they'd just laugh at him or they'd think he was instigating it.

Men and women face very different but still disgusting and sexist issues.

[zxzero]

I think that if you want equal rights then it should be equal down to everything. The majority of women do not pay child support and usually gets the child because women generally looked upon as caring more for a child, which is not always true. Womens insurance is lower than the majority of mens, especially new drivers. Don't get me wrong I fully support women being able to get paid as much as men and have equal rights, but with the good ones also come bad ones. :P

[GKBrendan]

Couldn't disagree with you there

Just went the old people thinking thing because almost all old men think that way, ive watched a lot of movies so im pretty much an expert on this

[raxn]

I think things will only change when our cultural society develops from its patriarchal form... indeed, society needs to develop a better appreciation of the female voice. I mean, seriously, male architects would NEVER have thought of hooks behind a public cubicle door. It's just not part of their needs.

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 AM ----------

I do agree with you zxzero! I think when it becomes socially acceptable for gender role reversals i.e. men to be caregivers and women to be breadwinners without any loss of ego we can be viewed as equal. Right now, businesses won't invest in women because they believe women don't always come back after pregnancy,etc because society demands them to care for their children. I know there are exceptions but when it is generally accepted, I believe we will have equality.

[Water]

All men, women and children should be able to feel safe in this world. Respect is a two-way street.
There are a lot of mad/scary people in the real world. Women/Men/Children all get caught in the crossfire.

[Katie]

I honestly think that the biggest shame about the #YesAllWomen campaign has been the fact that men are trying to make it about them.

LET ME FINISH.

#YesAllWomen is NOT about how shitty men are, it's about how shitty society is. It's about how women are treated by both men AND women. Women are JUST as vicious to other women as men can be. I went to a really small college where everyone in my class pretty much knew everyone else. Our freshman year, this girl claimed that a guy raped her when they were drunk. Literally every girl I heard talk about it said, "Whatever, she was just drunk and regrets it," or, "She's just mad because he didn't want to date her," or, "She's totally lying because I heard she was a huge slut in high school". Women can be just as violent towards each other when one steps "out of line" or ignores what someone has decided are the social norms.

It is DANGEROUS to be a women in the world that we live in. It's like k80 said, I remember being taught at driving school that wearing my hair down in a ponytail when I'm walking to my car alone in a parking lot is dangerous because that's what potential attackers look for. My mom bought me pepper spray at 12 when I started doing theatre downtown and would be there late at night. I was catcalled wearing a tank top and work out pants when I was 13 years old. Last year, some guy started yelling at me while I was driving. I didn't acknowledge him because I was honestly afraid of what he was going to say to me. He just wanted to tell me that my tail light was out. The fact is that this isn't the way that young women should have to be raised. If I have a daughter in the future, I shouldn't have to teach her the difference between consent and rape because there will be a 1 in 5 chance that she will be sexually assaulted.

I understand that there are plenty of men who face sexual assault or harassment at the hands of women. I know better than most that paternal rights in the US are fucked up. I am fully willing to acknowledge the difficulties that men suffer through.

But that is NOT what #YesAllWomen is about. Please stop sidetracking the real issue that's trying to be discussed.

I would really encourage every to read this ([Only registered and activated users can see links] ailed.html) piece on Slate.

My favorite part, which sums up a lot about how I feel about all this:


No, #NotAllMen are violent against women, but #YesAllWomen have to navigate a world where those who are look the same as those who aren't.

[Benny]

Totally agree with Katie. Hopefully soon we can live in a world where there are safe spaces for both genders to highlight the injustices against them without others butting in or cutting the conversation short. I think we're slowly but surely getting there.

[coldblaze]

#YesAllWomen because I still have to explain why I'm not interested and can't simply say a polite 'thanks, but no thanks.' Why is it so hard to understand?

[TwistyBR]

here in brazil is bearly impossible to walk around, even at daytime, the crime rate is so high, recently a girl was raped, she was kidnapped and taken to an empty residence, she was walking near a oublic park when that happened