How about divorce?

[Misha]

Topics on gay marriage/ polygamy so why not.

What are your views on divorce?

Personally, Ive always been against it. My parents divorced when I was 4 years old, and I do believe it influenced how I view relationships and I believe it contributed to how I have some type of abandonment issues/ separation anxiety. I havent been single for more than a few months for the last 10 years. I hate it. I need companionship. I need to be able to have someone around that I can talk to about my emotions and show me support and stability.


That being said, I am currently going through a divorce. I was stupid and got married at a young age, and now I definitely wish I would have listened to my friends/family. My wife and I dated for 3 years before we got married. She proposed to me. She had cheated on me around a year of us being together, we fought all the time, we didnt really have much in common. Well we got married anyway, I believe subconsciously because we thought it would make us happier. She got pregnant, and had an ectopic pregnancy which required emergency surgery to remove our baby or it would have killed her. Well after that, she was destroyed physically and emotionally and I didnt have the level of attachment to the child as she did.

Then after about a year of marriage, I found out from a friwnd that she was having an affair on me with our neighbor. I kicked her out, a week later she moved in with him, and now just a few weeks ago I found out shes pregnant with his kid.

So needless to say, I want to get this divorce done and over with. I should have never married her in the first place and now I have to deal with the consequences.

Id like to know what other people think about divorce.

[Octopus]

If something like your situation happens, divorce is needed. This is why people must be mature on the choices they make when it impacts their life in the ways that marriage does.

[boomer]

If it's really not working out, if it's negatively impacting the happiness/quality of your life and other people in your life, then it might be the right decision to make.

I just wish people would take it (and marriage) more seriously instead of just doing it on a whim. Is it really marriage if you just divorce a year later? What about if you have kids to think of?

Maybe when you got married you were too young, too naive, and that person is no longer right for you. But maybe when you want to divorce it's just a bad period in your life and some problems can be overcome. I think that's just a decision people have to make based on where they are in their lives.

But I think modern society makes divorce too easy. Or I'm just a romantic and I want to grow old with "the one". Idk.

[Misha]

I agree with both of you. I completely believe in the sanctity of marriage and hate that I have to do this. I wish I wouldnt have gotten married so young, or at the very least, put more thought into the seriousness of it at the time.

[rosieb]

I understand people need to have the option of divorce, like in your case, abuse, what the fuck ever, and I also agree that it's too much of a common practice in our culture...kinda like abortion..another topic, I know. America has a problem with taking these horribly difficult to deal with life choices and ingraining them into our society....Then the gov't leaves the people with little support to come out good on the other side..go figure.

I personally never want to get a divorce because I know it will fuck me up. 26/2 kids/ been with the guy for 9 years and there's no marriage in sight because we damn well know we'd get divorced. Now if only one of us had the nads to leave, but that's easier said than done in our particular situation. -_-

[Foxglove]

I don't agree with getting divorced on a whim (or when things get a little difficult), but there are definitely circumstances and situations where going through a divorce would be far less detrimental than staying in the marriage. Your situation definitely sounds beyond the point of being "a little difficult" so I can definitely see why you'd want a divorce.

Also, I know this wasn't the actual topic of the conversation but since the topic of abortion was mentioned: I feel like it'd be better if people used contraception to begin with, but I don't think abortion is necessarily a bad thing. If you go through the developmental psychopathology literature, it's evident how various parenting practices can serve as risk factors for a host of mental/behavioral 'disorders'. Also, it's important to consider how the environment the child will be brought up in will affect his or her development; there are situations where abortion would potentially prevent the proliferation of someone who would grow up to be a very troubled individual (perhaps troubled even to the point of committing a mass murder?).

[Misha]

I don't agree with getting divorced on a whim (or when things get a little difficult), but there are definitely circumstances and situations where going through a divorce would be far less detrimental than staying in the marriage. Your situation definitely sounds beyond the point of being "a little difficult" so I can definitely see why you'd want a divorce.

Also, I know this wasn't the actual topic of the conversation but since the topic of abortion was mentioned: I feel like it'd be better if people used contraception to begin with, but I don't think abortion is necessarily a bad thing. If you go through the developmental psychopathology literature, it's evident how various parenting practices can serve as risk factors for a host of mental/behavioral 'disorders'. Also, it's important to consider how the environment the child will be brought up in will affect his or her development; there are situations where abortion would potentially prevent the proliferation of someone who would grow up to be a very troubled individual (perhaps troubled even to the point of committing a mass murder?).

I dont feel like aborting a child because it would grow up in a less than suitable environment is a valid reason to do the operation. In cases like that, I personally feel adoption is the way to go. I think the only reason an abortion is necessary is if the woman was raped or it is deemed medically necessary to protect the womas health. But, thats just my personal opinion.

[Foxglove]

Yeah, abortion's a really controversial topic because it gets at a fundamental difference in the way people perceive the situation. And perception is everything!
Someone who's had exposure to 2D images of 3D objects all their life, and who knows how to use depth cues to get a 3D understanding of the objects in the image, will see it completely differently from another person who does not use depth cues to reconstruct the image into a 3D one (so therefore sees the 2D image depicting an ambiguous object, meaning it can be understandably interpreted as 3D or 2D, in 2D). I think the way people perceive the concept of abortion is kind of like that :P

[Bettser]

Topics on gay marriage/ polygamy so why not.

What are your views on divorce?

Personally, Ive always been against it. My parents divorced when I was 4 years old, and I do believe it influenced how I view relationships and I believe it contributed to how I have some type of abandonment issues/ separation anxiety. I havent been single for more than a few months for the last 10 years. I hate it. I need companionship. I need to be able to have someone around that I can talk to about my emotions and show me support and stability.


That being said, I am currently going through a divorce. I was stupid and got married at a young age, and now I definitely wish I would have listened to my friends/family. My wife and I dated for 3 years before we got married. She proposed to me. She had cheated on me around a year of us being together, we fought all the time, we didnt really have much in common. Well we got married anyway, I believe subconsciously because we thought it would make us happier. She got pregnant, and had an ectopic pregnancy which required emergency surgery to remove our baby or it would have killed her. Well after that, she was destroyed physically and emotionally and I didnt have the level of attachment to the child as she did.

Then after about a year of marriage, I found out from a friwnd that she was having an affair on me with our neighbor. I kicked her out, a week later she moved in with him, and now just a few weeks ago I found out shes pregnant with his kid.

So needless to say, I want to get this divorce done and over with. I should have never married her in the first place and now I have to deal with the consequences.

Id like to know what other people think about divorce.

My parents divorced when I was 10 years old. It crushed me for awhile, but it actually better in the end with both parents being successful and happy, therefore creating two happy environments for me. I know this isn't always the case for the situation, but having the opportunity for a better environment for the parents and child IS needed if the original household is broken.

[rosieb]

I dont feel like aborting a child because it would grow up in a less than suitable environment is a valid reason to do the operation. In cases like that, I personally feel adoption is the way to go. I think the only reason an abortion is necessary is if the woman was raped or it is deemed medically necessary to protect the womas health. But, thats just my personal opinion.

I'm a human services major...strong human development/social justice undertones in my electives...but..yeah...

Harris consistently reinforces the fact that hereditary personality traits only account for at most 50% of human personality development. For one to blindly subscribe to the school of thought that parents are solely responsible for the rest of development via the environment they create is not only inaccurate, but it also downplays the complexity of the human mind. Upon reading Harris’s (1995) review of Maccoby & Martin, it’s pretty clear that there is more to human development than, “… (that) either…parental behaviors have no effect, or that the only effective aspects of parenting must vary greatly from one child to another within the same family”. I have always found the depth of cultural and society influence on development to be astounding, and in essence, this is what Harris is suggesting as well.
References
Harris, J. R. (1995). Where Is the Child's Environment? A Group Socialization Theory of Development. Psychological Review. doi:10.1037/0033-295X.102.3.458
So given that snippet of information, I'd never agree with aborting due to possible predisposition to ANYTHING, especially psychological issues. xD

[Skarl]

I'm divorced. We were married on paper for six year and lived together for 4.5. We were both products of divorced parents and initially opposed to the idea.

Unfortunately, while you cannot change a person, people do change. Both my exhusband and I made decisions that were detrimental to our marriage. Without divulging too much information: our divorce was inevitable.

I think, given your situation, divorce will give you both the opportunity to settle down with someone whom you will be treated right by and treat right.

It's funny to say, as you have, that I dislike the idea of divorce. I think it's because I so desperately want to believe in the idea of love and treasuring someone with whom you can spend this life.

[Misha]

I'm divorced. We were married on paper for six year and lived together for 4.5. We were both products of divorced parents and initially opposed to the idea.

Unfortunately, while you cannot change a person, people do change. Both my exhusband and I made decisions that were detrimental to our marriage. Without divulging too much information: our divorce was inevitable.

I think, given your situation, divorce will give you both the opportunity to settle down with someone whom you will be treated right by and treat right.

It's funny to say, as you have, that I dislike the idea of divorce. I think it's because I so desperately want to believe in the idea of love and treasuring someone with whom you can spend this life.

You hit it right on the nose. I would have been 100% ready to work as hard as I could to work on any issues we had, except for faithfulness. I lost my trust for her and could not forsee myself ever being able to trust her again.

[Foxglove]

I'm a human services major...strong human development/social justice undertones in my electives...but..yeah...
So given that snippet of information, I'd never agree with aborting due to possible predisposition to ANYTHING, especially psychological issues. xD

Genetic heritability is one part of the equation, but it can be compounded by the environment in which a child grows up. So definitely, a child with a disposition for one mental disorder could very well grow up to be perfectly mentally healthy given the right environment and right people influencing them. But the reason traits can be picked up by the offspring, despite relatively low genetic heritability (relative to what you'd expect), is because of family influence and other influences from the neighborhood, community, etc :P

I agree that adoption is a very good option; especially in the country I'm from (the U.S.), where I think children in the system have a better chance of having a good life than, perhaps, in another, more impoverished country.
However, I think the way I perceive abortion is fundamentally different from the way you guys do (that is, I don't see the embryo as a child, so if the mother isn't ready to have a child yet then I think early termination is a viable alternative to carrying to term and actually producing a child; I also believe that the mother should be able to have a say in whether she wants to carry the pregnancy to term or not, because pregnancy undoubtedly has an effect of the mother; I mean, they reserve a section of the bus for handicapped people, the elderly, and pregnant women, which I think is indicative of the very special state a woman is when she is pregnant), and I don't want to be the outgroup member who gets demonized because of that xD
I'd never ever say it's ok to "murder a child", so 100% I understand if you perceive the embryo as a child (which I can totally see why someone would), abortion would be like the very last straw you'd grab at.



I really like hearing from the opposing sides to controversial topics because it really helps me look at issues from multiple and new perspectives, and I think that ability (to look at a single situation from many angles) is so important. You(I) get a much more nuanced view of the situation, and it makes you(I) better equipped to form my own opinions about it. And I hope anyone reading my messages looks at my comments the same way; I intend no hostility at all and I also don't really want to take sides; I just have an interest in exploring topics that oftentimes people don't want to touch. :P

[Aska]

I wish my parents would. :/

They've been together for 24 years and are completely awful to each other. It's obvious they're not in love and neither will go to a couples therapist to see if this is even salvageable. It's negatively affected relationships I have with people and it's taken me a few years to realize that I create the environment I don't want because of what I've grown up with.

[Misha]

Genetic heritability is one part of the equation, but it can be compounded by the environment in which a child grows up. So definitely, a child with a disposition for one mental disorder could very well grow up to be perfectly mentally healthy given the right environment and right people influencing them. But the reason traits can be picked up by the offspring, despite relatively low genetic heritability (relative to what you'd expect), is because of family influence and other influences from the neighborhood, community, etc :P

I agree that adoption is a very good option; especially in the country I'm from (the U.S.), where I think children in the system have a better chance of having a good life than, perhaps, in another, more impoverished country.
However, I think the way I perceive abortion is fundamentally different from the way you guys do (that is, I don't see the embryo as a child, so if the mother isn't ready to have a child yet then I think early termination is a viable alternative to carrying to term and actually producing a child; I also believe that the mother should be able to have a say in whether she wants to carry the pregnancy to term or not, because pregnancy undoubtedly has an effect of the mother; I mean, they reserve a section of the bus for handicapped people, the elderly, and pregnant women, which I think is indicative of the very special state a woman is when she is pregnant), and I don't want to be the outgroup member who gets demonized because of that xD
I'd never ever say it's ok to "murder a child", so 100% I understand if you perceive the embryo as a child (which I can totally see why someone would), abortion would be like the very last straw you'd grab at.



I really like hearing from the opposing sides to controversial topics because it really helps me look at issues from multiple and new perspectives, and I think that ability (to look at a single situation from many angles) is so important. You(I) get a much more nuanced view of the situation, and it makes you(I) better equipped to form my own opinions about it. And I hope anyone reading my messages looks at my comments the same way; I intend no hostility at all and I also don't really want to take sides; I just have an interest in exploring topics that oftentimes people don't want to touch. :P



Im drunk as hell right now so excuse my demeanor if it comes off as ignorant or biased in any way.

I am from the US and given the guidelines set in place for people to adopt, thats why I feel that is a favorable option over abortion in a situation where a child coukd potentially be born into a less than suitable environment.

That being said, my girlfriend is 21 years old and has a 3 year old daughter as well as a 1 year old daughter. Given her circumstances at the time of contraception, I would have been levied towards adoption... but now, she has proven herself to be insanely more mature than 98% of her high school class, and is an amazing mother to her children. I am helping her raise them (which is my choice, the father is a piece of shit) and I learn everyday more and more about parenthood from her. I would agree completey that kids these days should be more aware of the consequences of unprotected sex and be aware that should pregnancy come of such actions, they need to be ready to deal with them as though they made the choice to become pregnant.

I feel like Im ranting, so Im going to stop there, bit t we can continur thi convirsation upon my sobritey

[Foxglove]

Oh no you didn't come off that way at all! Sometimes I worry when I get into these sorts of conversations that my comments will be taken with offense (as it usually happens in online comments sections :P)


I definitely think that having kids at a young age can help the parents (or, at least the mothers; taking into consideration the fact that there are a lot of single mothers out there) mature much more quickly than their peers, who don't have the responsibility of caring for another person. Sometimes that extra responsibility even acts as motivation to pursue more in life than they normally might have; more drive to provide a better life for their kids. Of course there are also parents who don't really thrive under that sort of a situation, but I've met countless girls who had children as teens, and they're now in their mid-to-late twenties and are achieving so much -- earning degrees at top universities, acquiring leadership positions, and are otherwise all-around amazing people to be around.

But on the flip side of that same token, having another person to take care of means you have more on your plate than your peers; I don't think raising kids is by any means a walk in the park, and it can only be more difficult if the mother or parents don't have a support system of say family/friends/community that's there to help them when they need it. Not every young mother (or, even, not-so-young mother) will benefit from going to term with their pregnancy.

So, I think they should at least have the choice of whether to go through with it, because you can't have a one-size-fits-all plan for everyone, and I feel like saying that "abortion is a huge no-no, except under the absolute most extreme circumstances" is (to a large extent) a one-size-fits-all measure, which fails to take into account the very varied circumstances that surround a mother who's considering abortion, and the very varied consequences that may arise from performing or not performing the abortion procedure.

I would never ever say to anyone that they "need to have an abortion", because that is just ludicrous (this is not supposed to be a parallel to the "abortion is a no-no" thing :P , but just adding a more nuanced look into my stance on the topic); but I think the option of having an abortion should be available to any pregnant girl or woman (especially if it's very early in the pregnancy; if you go much later into the pregnancy, my stance changes).

[rosieb]

I think as a pro-choice advocate that doesn't believe that the fetus is...a baby..(sorry for the dumbass word usage, it's 4:40am, lol, I've been up since 2:30am for no real reason xD) that you present your argument really tastefully, no offense could possibly be taken!

I of course do not agree, if the fetus has a heartbeat I consider it alive - I am okay with Plan B, I used it once myself - hated myself for doing it but honestly, I probably wasn't even pregnant or...had conceived anything so that's just silly on my part. Extremely early abortions truthfully, I'm not deadset against, like..prior to 6 weeks when you can get a heartbeat...of course the heart may be beating before but if you can't tell - you can't know for sure, and I can't call that wrong...besides the fetus may not be viable anyway.

The problem for me is that abortion here in America is a cultural problem. Abortion is being used as birth control, and that's deplorable. Abortion is argued to be a right, and I don't buy that...it's a medical procedure, and frankly no matter how you cut it you're ending a life, and that has serious implications. It isn't right to kill people, any one, for any reason. HOWEVER, there are times we have to, someone trying to kill us? Self-Defense, tough, but not really morally wrong. Someone trying to hurt your family/friends, hell even a stranger...if you're one to protect a complete strangers life, if you must, fine....and even that's not great, but it is understandable. Many pro-choice woman have abortions and then develop PTSD, this alone says something about how muted the psychological effects of abortion are for the woman who are doing it, and advocating for others to do the same. Yes, there are times where you know the child would be born and truly suffer....some will have a life only filled with horrible, horrible suffering, should you have a choice to abort in this case, sure, but it should be done timely, very - very timely...would I do it, I don't know..but when the mothers life is in extreme danger, or both lives are in extreme danger, I can understand, and medically speaking, that option should be on the table. We all don't have the choice to kill a life because we don't want it. If that baby was 2 seconds out of the mothers body and someone killed it would be murder, regardless of how many weeks early the baby may have been born. I cannot subscribe to the school of thought that 2 seconds makes a bit of a difference, or that it really is any different if it's done by a doctor (of course assuming there was no medical or other reason for the abortion). It just doesn't seem right on any level, but again this is a bigger problem, it's something our culture wants us to believe so we can all sleep at night. Cases of rape, I'd still use a case by case basis when considering abortion as an option...many woman have kept a baby after being raped because they could mentally handle it, others mentally and physically could not...and that I can understand...but it shouldn't be an automatic green light for all.

Again, just my opinion. I'm generally against Capital Punishment as well, fyi, lol, I just have a problem with legal murder, seems contradictory to me.

[Katie]

Is this a thread about divorce or abortion?

EDIT I accidentally hit send too soon.

I personally have no problem with divorce. My parents divorced when I was young and have remained on very good terms ever since. But I do think that people jump to divorce far too soon. I think there are always options other than divorce. Someone cheats once and the answer is divorce. Your sex life takes a dive, must mean we're not in love and should get divorced. Obviously when things like infidelity or a sexless marriage are frequent and / or constant, there might not be any other choice.

I have no moral problem with divorce. Sometimes people marry too young or people change and the other person didn't consent to marrying the new person their spouse has become. Sometimes people physically and sexually abuse their spouses.

I guess the more I think about it, it kind of is like abortion, so maybe it was an appropriate segue. There are some people who think that you should only have an abortion if you were raped or if the pregnancy will cost you your health. Some people think you should only get divorced if you're being abused. I happen to believe that if I take all the necessary precautions and still end up pregnant, I should be able to do what I want and shouldn't be forced to go through the trauma of a pregnancy just to put a child up for adoption in a broken system. I also believe that I should have the right to make the decision about who I spend my life with and how much should be required of me before I decide that that marriage is no longer something I'm interested in being a part of.

[Banannie]

Divorce is strange. My parents divorced when I was three or four, and it didn't really bother me much. My dad wasn't in my life too much, until they got back together when I was 16.

They took time apart and grew as people, and now have jobs that allow them to both be financially well off. Not rich by any means, but happy. They have a home and land.

Both are educated with master's degrees, both came from abusive households. Dad had three sisters, mom had three brothers. Parents were wacko.

My mom was a little more abusive (I guess if you can call it that, I was a bratty kid) and my dad used humour to work with me, which worked really well. I got over the whole thing with parents attributing anything to how I will be with my future husband, because my childhood was great compared to a lot of people.
I just need to realise what my weaknesses are and work on them, now that I am an adult.

I had an abortion once, I was too young to care for the child. I aborted it very early on. Never feels good to do that to a child, but I knew if I had the kid I couldn't give it up, and I wasn't in the frame of mind by any means to care for it. Was a disheartening experience, I never forget my birth control now. Don't ever want to go through that again.

Sounds like your wife is a floozy. You'll do better than that.