Pro-life!

[Blazingchampion]

My religious roommate and her friends recently approached me and asked if I was pro-life.

I told them I most definitely am! That I believe human beings have a responsibility to conserve and protect wildlife.

They then told me if I was for the murdering of innocent babies, and said if a baby was a tree, would I save it?



Am I the only one that finds the term (Pro-Life) a little misleading?

If anything, I feel like adding more humans to the world doesn't benefit the world at all. But we can always use more trees.

What are your thoughts on abortion and the use of the phrase "pro-life"?

[Air]

I don't really express my opinions on this very much. My only thoughts are "Those women whom have to make that choice have most courage than I, and they should choose the choice they can make peace with, for it is them alone who have to walk it. Not you, nor I, nor anyone but those with that choice."

[kittyray]

The phrase "pro-life" is misleading, which is why a lot of people have come to call it "anti-choice".
Which is what it is

[Blazingchampion]

My issue with "pro-life" is that it only applies to humans, and not towards every other living thing on this planet. I believe that people mostly bring harm to this world, in general, rid everything else of life and growth.

Some alternatives could be (Anti-Abortion, Anti-choice, pro-birth, ect.)

[Mod]

I would save a tree.
But babies are not trees, they're not even remotely related in any social sense.
Your religious friends are drawing on unrealistic analogies to guilt trip people into seeing "their way".

That's like saying people who eat tomatoes are sick fucks because they'd also likely eat humans. :S

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As for abortion, I am for it as long as it's of free will of the parent(s) themselves, not pressure from others.

I personally believe until late stages of pregnancy and after birth is a person truly "alive", in a moral respect. Until then, the baby is just a cluster of cells like a steak you buy at the store or a tree outside - it lacks a conscious brain, it lacks sentience. If a person isn't ready or capable to be a parent in upbringing a child in a successful and nurturing environment, then abortion is the best way to go, for the unborn kid and to the parents themselves.

The few months of pregnancy is nothing compared to the responsibility of a lifetime - to the child, to the person as a parent, and to society as a while.

Inability to raise kids "right" is one of the contributing factors why society has problems like crime and hate, and why it grows worse by the generation; more people on Earth and escalating warped ideals. World population is getting bigger, and while technically food stores and space (if managed efficiently) can last everyone a few hundred more years, governments aren't willing to help needy nations for free, leading to strife as we see in the world now and since the dawn of civilization. In the long run, it affects us all.




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The following may be getting off-topic from the OP's original point, hence spoiler'd and read at your own interest:

Pro-life, depending on how you view the definition, is more than just babies and abortion as you already know; but for sake of argument, I will stick to humans in this debate thread. Other instances are euthanasia of terminally ill or unrecoverable patients and death penalty to criminals, the situations about pro-life are almost infinite and each has a distinct ideology of thought to everyone. Arguments about it involve more than one group of debaters, and more than one subject; is the idea of keeping unborn kids the same as keeping psychopathic serial killers off death row? You can't (and shouldn't) generalize for or against "pro-life" to keeping everyone alive or killing them, it's all circumstantial.

[xSoMuchRagex]

Honestly I think kids have the right to life a much as anyone. The only time I would find the use of the term pro-life to be 'misleading' would be in the event that a woman would die in childbirth then saying "pro-life" doesnt exactly tell you which life is being chosen...

[Banannie]

I find this issue to be very frustrating. If a person is in a situation where they have gotten pregnant without meaning to, then there is something wrong with the education they have been given or the situation they are in. There are places out there where you can get condoms for free and birth control pills. You do have the right to do whatever you want with your body, and no one should tell you otherwise, but this should NOT be used as an excuse to have irresponsible sex. Pregnancy can be prevented and if you don't have the means to be responsible about it than you should not be fucking, ya damned rabbits...! :P

The above is not pertaining to victims of rape. And I get that occasionally uncontrollable shit happens, but the numbers of women going in for abortions is a lot higher than the statistics of responsible accidents.

I agree with abortion, though. I don’t think that a child should have a child if they don’t have the means, the income and the education to teach their kin how to function in the world. I don’t think a drug addict should have a child. I don’t think that parents should have to bring into the world a child that is going to be born a vegetable. You can do what you want with your body. But be responsible. Don’t think that just because you ‘can’ abort a child that you don’t have to be safe.

[icebox]

If we're doing some real talk here I don't reckon anyone should get down and dirty with anyone who they can't trust enough to support them in either decision if a baby happens

HOWEVER this is not the ideal world and I have broken this little mantra of mine on more than one occasion.

I always thought I would keep a baby if I did get pregnant, and I think if it had happened to me with the ex-partner I was sexually active with for over a year we would have kept it. (Took us a couple of scares to get to that point but I know he would've stuck around.) But the guy I'm kind of seeing at the moment? No way would I be able to cope with telling him if I was pregnant - I would be raising that child on my own.

So ideally I wanna save all the babbies because I think life starts right from the zygote, but this is a to-each-their-own world and it's not my place to make decisions like that for other people, y'know? As much as it broke my heart/made me furious to see a friend just kinda throw her vag around and use abortion as a form of contraception, all I could do was be there for her as a non-judgemental party to love her through all that pain. Sex is complicated mang

[katix]

I had an abortion a while ago and honestly don't regret it at all. We were using condoms, it broke. We used Plan B once before but shit, that fucker is 50$ per pill and as a broke ass college student I can't afford that shit while I'm already eating cup a noodle every meal. Luckily Planned Parenthood paid for my abortion and saved my life. The term pro-life is misleading to me because the way I see it they are asking you to completely forget about the females life and put the fetus first. I don't find this particularly fair at all...I mean if they wanted that fetus go ahead and take it outta the mom and raise it yourself in your own womb. Also yeah pro-life could mean a lot more than just human babies.

[Elmo]

I don't agree that a baby is just cells in the early stages, as someone who had a miscarriage at 12 weeks I can tell you it's not that simple. With my current son I heard his little heart beat as a 7 week old fetus, I seen his little nose and hands on a 3d scan. My son was the result of failed contraception and I am definitely not uneducated about this kind of thing as it has been suggested above. Condoms can break, the pill can fail (sickness, taking anti biotics etc).

That being said, I am pro choice. I would NEVER have an abortion personally and never considered it. But I do understand people who choose this way. What I can't understand is little sluts who go out having unprotected sex with every tom dick and harry and then have an abortion as if it's nothing. If you aren't able to look after a child, sure, or for medical purposes.

[futoss]

All in all I am mostly against this issue, but as with any issue there is always a grey area. I will say wholeheartedly that I'm against abortion because it is not the baby's fault how they were conceived. There's always adoption so I don't think that people who don't make enough money or don't think that they can raise a baby should be allowed to abort. There are millions of people in this world were unable to conceive and would take the baby from them in an instant. Victims of rape are a part of the grey area for me. I could sit here and say all I want that they should just deal but I've never gone through the situation personally and have no idea how it would feel. Like I said, adoption.

[Banannie]

I don't agree that a baby is just cells in the early stages, as someone who had a miscarriage at 12 weeks I can tell you it's not that simple. With my current son I heard his little heart beat as a 7 week old fetus, I seen his little nose and hands on a 3d scan. My son was the result of failed contraception and I am definitely not uneducated about this kind of thing as it has been suggested above. Condoms can break, the pill can fail (sickness, taking anti biotics etc).

That being said, I am pro choice. I would NEVER have an abortion personally and never considered it. But I do understand people who choose this way. What I can't understand is little sluts who go out having unprotected sex with every tom dick and harry and then have an abortion as if it's nothing. If you aren't able to look after a child, sure, or for medical purposes.

I'm sorry if my post offended you, I never meant for it to come across that you might be uneducated about your sex life in any way. Funny you mention the antibiotics thing, because I had become pregnant while on antibiotics, despite being on the pill and had planned on keeping the child, but I had a miscarriage a month into the pregnancy.

I do, however, have friends who have sex without any protection at all and continue to use abortions as an option despite other alternatives out there.

Again, I'm really sorry if my post came across as vindictive or unkind to other people's situations/families. :)

[Elmo]

I wasn't offended, just giving my view. I had a miscarriage too and it was heart breaking. I would rather see someone have an abortion than to have a child they can't support and for their lives to be ruined.

My son wasn't planned but is the best thing that's ever happened to me, I already had a college education so now I'm putting myself through University and it's hard but I'm just an example it can all work out.




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[Mod]

Again, I'm really sorry if my post came across as vindictive or unkind to other people's situations/families. :)

You're allowed to speak your mind in the debate section and counter others' arguments, hence 'debate'. :P

The only thing you cannot do is go on a flame fest and begin thrashing others for their opinions.

All is good.

[Banannie]

Alright, well I'll still tone it down a bit. A good debate is a respectful debate, y'know?

[Elmo]

Your post wasn't offensive or over the top, I simply retaliated with my opinion, I actually agree with what you said in general. I also have to say that when people say abortion is the cowards way out is so wrong, abortion can be one of the bravest things someone has to do.

[Anhedonia]

pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. while i am pro-choice i don't necessarily think abortions are the answer though i think it's nice that the mother has the choice what to do with her own body. a mother in an abusive relationship for example understandably would not want to bring a baby into the mix as it could pose a danger after the child is born. in all honesty i always just figured it was easier for them never to be born than to grow up in an abusive home, a home that couldn't support them, or the adoption system because there are so many kids already there. most of my issues with pro-life arguments is that they're a lot of the same people who advocate for people being put to death in prison and people not receiving sex education at an early enough age (most of my highschool sex education was abstinence only which doesn't help people who are already sexually active and mostly puberty based though i was in highschool).

[nebulas]

a fetus is not a baby :/

and i am so very pro-choice because whether the fetus is alive/a person isnt even important.
whats important is the pregnant persons bodily autonomy, and their right to say no to someone using their body to survive. youre not obligated to donate your blood or organs or whatever to anyone, but you should be forced to let someone use your uterus?? lol no.