Organ Donation

[Maki]

What started off as a simple question in my biology homework has otherwise consistently come up as a topic of great interest to me.

Should everybody be an organ donor when they die?

Personally, I believe it should be an opt-out system rather than an opt-in
Meaning that by default, everybody is eligible to become an organ donor after their death is confirmed, but this can be avoided by going out and opting out of it yourself.
In essence this is the opposite of the system we have today

What do you think? If you have any religious views, how does this pose a problem to your religion/culture?

[fruitbat]

i can be an organ donor for ya, mint. :rolleyes:




but honestly, i'm inclined to agree with you. my religion (with roots in hinduism, islam, buddhism and animism) doesn't say anything against it specifically, and in fact even encourages it. giving your body to help others after you have returned to your energy form is hella good karma (is it the same word in english oops), i think? and it's helping others in general ya know, being subservient to your fellow man. seems like a good deal for me.

i can't understand why not someone would do this? besides maybe a religion thing that says that the body must be complete.

[Maki]

i can be an organ donor for ya, mint. :rolleyes:




but honestly, i'm inclined to agree with you. my religion (with roots in hinduism, islam, buddhism and animism) doesn't say anything against it specifically, and in fact even encourages it. giving your body to help others after you have returned to your energy form is hella good kharma, i think? and it's helping others in general ya know, being subservient to your fellow man. seems like a good deal for me.

i can't understand why not someone would do this? besides maybe a religion thing that says that the body must be complete.

In that case, give me your ta-tas if you know what I mean..:rolleyes:


That was along my line of thinking as well.

However, just to play the devil's advocate, I've been thinking about a certain issue that could potentially undermine this side of the argument.

Suppose a secret rapist or whatever needs a new liver, and his family has requested a transplant. They have the money to pay for it and everything.
This new system where organs are at many doctors' fingertips would mean this guy would continue to live and terrorize others.

I feel that trying to come up with strict rules on who is deserving of an organ would be too complicated in the long run.

[Mod]

Fundamentally, your idea of "opt-out" is better and more efficient, so why hasn't it been proposed for legislation?

Because society is not ready to accept it.

---

As it stands, civilization is too focused on liberalism and individualism - particularly in democratic nations.

People don't like the idea of being spoken for or used as tools (by default).

There would be a lot of backlash from citizens if they heard their own bodies were being used by anyone other than themselves, even if a simple "opt-out" is readily available.

It's the same line of thinking as to why we complain why nothing gets done by the government these days and they're spinning around in their chairs all day.
We aim for conformity and peace; thus the government must appease the majority of us by not trying to stir something up.
Hence the "check and balances" we have in place to safeguard everyone's opinions/interests, at the cost of time, money, and often lack of resolution.

Adding pressure to this are all those hippie "rights" groups left and right, whistleblowing and riots. But it's what we pay for in choosing to live in left-wing societies:

We sacrifice decisiveness for freedom.

---

But no doubt your idea would be more likely to happen in collective governments such as Communism, if anything however. They whip their people and get shit done, son!

[j03]

I just gave this a thought and...

I think opting out should not be an option. Why? Are you going to be coming back from death?

[Maki]

I just gave this a thought and...

I think opting out should not be an option. Why? Are you going to be coming back from death?

No lol

I don't think I made this clear.

I meant by opting out is that from birth, you as an individual are subjected to organ donation at the time of your death, whenever that may be.
However, your parents/guardian/whoever is in charge can choose to just opt you out or something.
There's still a choice, but the default is that you are an organ donor.

[fruitbat]

I just gave this a thought and...

I think opting out should not be an option. Why? Are you going to be coming back from death?

ahh nothing is coming off the top of my head but i think that some of the burial procedures for certain religions dictate that the whole body must be entombed/cremated. i mean to be respectful to them i can understanding opt-out.

[Drizzy]

You guy's didn't get Joe's post at all.. lol

[Ana]

I'm just going to throw out that there are medical reasons why someone can't be an organ donor.
They may not state that it's a medical reason for their own privacy.
My parents are both considered to be hepatitis carriers, and so they have chosen not to be organ donors because of that.

[Air]

I'm a nontheist so I have no religious objections.
When I'm dead, they can take every cell in my body if they want.

I'm dead, don't need them anymore.
AINT GOT NO MEAT SAC TO HOLD ME BACK

[Maki]

I'm just going to throw out that there are medical reasons why someone can't be an organ donor.
They may not state that it's a medical reason for their own privacy.
My parents are both considered to be hepatitis carriers, and so they have chosen not to be organ donors because of that.

Yes, but you'd always be able to opt out, thats the thing
And even then. I'm sure the doctors would inspect the organs beforehand and choose not to use em

[Poem]

I think the opt-out system is a great idea. We need more organ donors so people don't die waiting for organs and so people don't end up selling their body parts while they're alive and this doesn't happen:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Leah]

I just gave this a thought and...

I think opting out should not be an option. Why? Are you going to be coming back from death?

PREACH IT

[Katie]

Save for religious or medical reasons, I cannot see a single reason why you would want any organs that could potential save or change a persons life for the better (like cornea donations, won't save a life but will give someone the ability to see) to be cremated or buried with you in the ground.

Unless you're afraid of being a blind ghost.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[kittyray]

I think it should be an opt-out system. I'm an donor even though they probably won't take my organs because of health reasons. I know I can't join a marrow registry (though I can test and donate to a relative or something) and some places don't want my blood, so that would seem to follow. I really should look into donating to science, because then maybe some use will come of my body whenever that may be.

But seriously, all I did was check a box when I got my driver's license, just change the phrasing a bit and maybe a lot more people would be donors.

Also, so many more people need to join bone marrow registries. I realize this is more iffy because you're alive for the procedure and it's painful and whatever, but the chances you'll actually be matched with somebody is so slim, anyway.

[|2eap]

What started off as a simple question in my biology homework has otherwise consistently come up as a topic of great interest to me.

Should everybody be an organ donor when they die?

Personally, I believe it should be an opt-out system rather than an opt-in
Meaning that by default, everybody is eligible to become an organ donor after their death is confirmed, but this can be avoided by going out and opting out of it yourself.
In essence this is the opposite of the system we have today

What do you think? If you have any religious views, how does this pose a problem to your religion/culture?

agreed
if i'm dead. why does it matter? family first though

---------- Post added at 03:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 AM ----------

agreed again. but i dont believe so in that stand point. ghosts are just lost souls

[Sociopath]

I'd like a opt out system but then I'd feel empathetic to the people overseas making $300k per heart....now that's a bad ass black market.

[MissMellon]

I'm a registered organ donor and I agree with opt out being more effective for helping those who need it.

I donate blood currently despite an strong fear of needles (I started when i was 16) because my dad was an organ donor and currently i cannot do the same in my current alive state.

The more people who can offer organs the better. Even if someone is a donor depending on how they die or time and such affects if organs can be used. By the time it was able to be put into effect the only part my father had to offer were his eyes.

So even with the pool of donors out there so many factors influence a donation. Like Joe said. You're dead. Let another have a shot at life.

[watersniper]

My country has an opt out system for basic organs eg corneas, kidney. You can opt in to donate more.
I opted in :)

[kittyray]

My country has an opt out system for basic organs eg corneas, kidney. You can opt in to donate more.
I opted in :)

For some reason tiers like that never occurred to me, but that seems like a pretty decent happy medium.
(Also, good on you :) )

[Broken]

I'll give you my heart mint. :wink-new: <3

When we get our drivers license here they ask if we want to become organ donors, but I guess a system that has everyone as a donor unless they opt out is a better system.

[Maki]

I'd like a opt out system but then I'd feel empathetic to the people overseas making $300k per heart....now that's a bad ass black market.

Elaborate on this?

& Thanks Broken, you got my back :o_o:

[Mod]

Elaborate on this?

She was being half sarcastic, half serious.

---

Referring to countries where private (shady) organ sales/transplants exist; typically where state-regulated organ donor programs are insufficient.

People can sell their organs under the table for hard cash, or have organ "dealers" collect off others' body parts - much like selling drugs.



Just imagine back alley/basement operation rooms where people are getting hacked open,
or some shady doctor whose lost his medical license, operating with garage tools and kitchen utensils as exaggerated imagery. :P

[Maki]

She was being half sarcastic, half serious.

---

Referring to countries where private (shady) organ sales/transplants exist; typically where state-regulated organ donor programs are insufficient.

People can sell their organs under the table for hard cash, or have organ "dealers" collect off others' body parts - much like selling drugs.



Just imagine back alley/basement operation rooms where people are getting hacked open,
or some shady doctor whose lost his medical license, operating with garage tools and kitchen utensils as exaggerated imagery. :P

Oh :P I didn't get it, thanks for clarifying!
Guess that business would take a hit lol

[Sociopath]

Elaborate on this?

& Thanks Broken, you got my back :o_o:

Basically what Mod said. People in the US can go over to some where like China where you can buy organs more freely.

It depends on the country. It's been a long time since I've watched the documentary I watched but I remember an American guy dropping something crazy like $300k on a heart. It was from an executed prisoner. The executions over there happen much, much more and therefore supply for organs is higher. I looked it up and it's now illegal to sell to organs in China but I think the law was "open to interpretation" at the time of this documentary. The guy took out a loan and I think it was very clean and done in a respectable hospital. But Mod is right. Some places it's really sketchy/dirty and people sell kidneys for macbooks type thing or to pay their bills.

They probably changed the law because of the documentary...but it probably still goes on. It had a heavy focus on how clean it was to do in China. I can't imagine a place like that wasting money off someone they were going to execute anyways.

[gaskin]

I'm all for it and it should be opt-out only on religious grounds. Having a family friend who has cystic fibrosis receive a lung transplant 2 weeks ago and seeing the improvement already I don't see why people wouldn't want to help give someone a second chance.

[smileyface]

has anyone read "unwind" before?
it's a book set in a society where some teenagers are forced to become organ donors (when they're alive)
and how some of these people try to escape their fate

[janikanicolepi]

I heard of the cases from my friend who are EMT telling me (they been told my their senior staff) whenever there is an catastrophic accident (survival chance is less than some %), they sometimes check your licenses to see if you are an organ donor. If you are, they probably won't attempt to rescue you. I know it's going to sound cruel and immoral, but just pointing that out. I'm also opt out for organ donor. Hopefully stem cell project will evolve one day to the point we will no longer need donation from another person.

[osiyo]

I heard of the cases from my friend who are EMT telling me (they been told my their senior staff) whenever there is an catastrophic accident (survival chance is less than some %), they sometimes check your licenses to see if you are an organ donor. If you are, they probably won't attempt to rescue you. I know it's going to sound cruel and immoral, but just pointing that out. I'm also opt out for organ donor. Hopefully stem cell project will evolve one day to the point we will no longer need donation from another person.

As a former EMT, I assure you this is bullshit. You work to save every person you can, and you usually don't go through their wallets to find their insurance cards/driver's license until you have them stabilized and on their way to the hospital.

I worked as an EMT for three years, and I never checked to see if they were an organ donor.

That being said, motorcycle accidents and car accidents are great candidates for organ donation because they tend to otherwise have been very healthy and young. And if you ride a motorcycle and have your brains are smeared on the pavement, the rest of you is still fine! :D

[Sociopath]

As a former EMT, I assure you this is bullshit. You work to save every person you can, and you usually don't go through their wallets to find their insurance cards/driver's license until you have them stabilized and on their way to the hospital.

I worked as an EMT for three years, and I never checked to see if they were an organ donor.

That being said, motorcycle accidents and car accidents are great candidates for organ donation because they tend to otherwise have been very healthy and young. And if you ride a motorcycle and have your brains are smeared on the pavement, the rest of you is still fine! :D

You know whats bullshit? The fact an ambulence company charged me $1100 TWO TIMES because they took me like 3 miles two times. Ridiculous.

With that you all are capable of anything. :mad:

[osiyo]

You know whats bullshit? The fact an ambulence company charged me $1100 TWO TIMES because they took me like 3 miles two times. Ridiculous.

With that you all are capable of anything. :mad:

:rolleyes:


my company was $1800 per ride + $2400 if the medics had to ride along

[Sociopath]

:rolleyes:


my company was $1800 per ride + $2400 if the medics had to ride along


I'm sorry but that's the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. That's absolutely disgusting. :P

[osiyo]

I'm sorry but that's the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. That's absolutely disgusting. :P

US health system - you pay for all the schmucks who can't/don't. Insurance usually covers ambulance rides at least (albeit with a $500 or so deductible). You can also refuse care (and therefore not pay for the ambulance called to the scene).

[Sociopath]

US health system - you pay for all the schmucks who can't/don't. Insurance usually covers ambulance rides at least (albeit with a $500 or so deductible). You can also refuse care (and therefore not pay for the ambulance called to the scene).

Yeah my insurance company didn't cover shit for the ambulance rides. I had to pay out of pocket. I'm actually still dealing with this shit because the company turned me over to a collection agency even though I paid for the dumb shit.

It was psychiatric related, I really had no choice.
But trust me...I will be driving myself to a hospital while doing anything. Having a heart attack, I just got shot in the brain, you name it. Never again will someone rape me for $2000 for driving me 6 miles.

/end rant

[osiyo]

Yeah my insurance company didn't cover shit for the ambulance rides. I had to pay out of pocket. I'm actually still dealing with this shit because the company turned me over to a collection agency even though I paid for the dumb shit.

It was psychiatric related, I really had no choice.
But trust me...I will be driving myself to a hospital while doing anything. Having a heart attack, I just got shot in the brain, you name it. Never again will someone rape me for $2000 for driving me 6 miles.

/end rant


ooof, that sucks. I would be intrigued as to why your insurance refused to cover it, but I'm going to guess that's sensitive information. In the future if it ever, god forbid, happens again, you can usually sweet talk to repayment section of the company into giving you a break on the payments/ a nice deal on it. They usually don't expect a single payer to pay the entire bill (prices are inflated so when insurance pays a fraction of it it is enough to cover all costs) and are willing to work with people.

when my bro didn't have insurance, they let him pay ~1/2 the bill over a 6 month period and called it even. :( Sucks you got screwed over.

[Sociopath]

ooof, that sucks. I would be intrigued as to why your insurance refused to cover it, but I'm going to guess that's sensitive information. In the future if it ever, god forbid, happens again, you can usually sweet talk to repayment section of the company into giving you a break on the payments/ a nice deal on it. They usually don't expect a single payer to pay the entire bill (prices are inflated so when insurance pays a fraction of it it is enough to cover all costs) and are willing to work with people.

when my bro didn't have insurance, they let him pay ~1/2 the bill over a 6 month period and called it even. :( Sucks you got screwed over.

Nah I don't care. I have a 10k deductible (yeah, no that's not a typo you read right). Every time I deal with people they're like wow...I've never seen such a high deductible in my life. :mad:
It's probably related to that, but I spoke to them several times and they told me point blank they weren't covering any of the ambulance costs. They covered a percentage of everything else (small percentage) but nothing of the ambulance. It was out of network too and they told me I could never get sick out of network again and they would never pay out of network again...so that's cool...

Next time something happens medically I will be sweet talking. Ain't nobody got money for hospitals. They're just annoying people to deal with..

[janikanicolepi]

You know whats bullshit? The fact an ambulence company charged me $1100 TWO TIMES because they took me like 3 miles two times. Ridiculous.

With that you all are capable of anything. :mad:


They charged me $600 one ride TO the hospital, but that was 7 miles. Turn out it wasn't asthma, but panic attack. (I didn't have my inhaler at the time) Stupid by stander decided to call 911,' what an asshole. Who would've thought good their good deed screw up my saving. :mad:

---------- Post added at 05:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------


ooof, that sucks. I would be intrigued as to why your insurance refused to cover it, but I'm going to guess that's sensitive information. In the future if it ever, god forbid, happens again, you can usually sweet talk to repayment section of the company into giving you a break on the payments/ a nice deal on it. They usually don't expect a single payer to pay the entire bill (prices are inflated so when insurance pays a fraction of it it is enough to cover all costs) and are willing to work with people.

when my bro didn't have insurance, they let him pay ~1/2 the bill over a 6 month period and called it even. :( Sucks you got screwed over.

It only sucks for those who actually have some saving, but not quit enough. One surgery set your retirement saving plan back 3 years.

[kittyray]

They charged me $600 one ride TO the hospital, but that was 7 miles. Turn out it wasn't asthma, but panic attack. (I didn't have my inhaler at the time) Stupid by stander decided to call 911,' what an asshole. Who would've thought good their good deed screw up my saving. :mad:[COLOR="Silver"]



I was once charged that much for a 1.5 mile ride, plus something like $1000 for an overnight stay. I wasn't even admitted to the actual hospital, just a sick bay because my school's health center thought I was too drunk and needed a babysitter. I actually could have used medical care because I was probably either drugged or having petit mal seizures, but all I got was an uncomfortable bed and a strong slap on the wrist for letting somebody make me a drink and having two glasses of wine with a neurological disorder.

[Skarl]

Personally, I believe it should be an opt-out system rather than an opt-in
Meaning that by default, everybody is eligible to become an organ donor after their death is confirmed, but this can be avoided by going out and opting out of it yourself.

You're not 100% dead at time of harvest (the organs need to be alive).
Religiously I'm ok with it being an opt-in system, but I understand your point of view in terms of societal betterment. I opted in. Don't think that should I come to an untimely demise to where the donation is a feasible option that I'll need my organs! Haha. Mine wouldn't go to people wait-listed, either, because of the smoking/drinking/badness in me.

[460097]

Well, I do think it should be an opt-in.

Many reasons for people to not want to be a donor, e.g. religious, sentimental etc.

[livemynightmare]

I will always be for Organ Donation because if I have the right to save someone elses life whether they deserve it or not.. I will. Because the world will never be a better place until we help each other more.

[Banannie]

I just made a new friend and he has cystic fibrosis and will need a lung transplant in a few years, so I'm all for organ donation. Unless you have religious or health reasons, there isn't any reason to keep your organs. You are dead.

Another thing, off topic, but instead of graveyards I think we should have 'grave forests', where creamated bodies are mixed into the soil of a growing tree that is planted on site with a plaque in the ground in rememberence of the person. It would be a great way to reforest the Earth, and allow the dead to have a sort of 'second life'.

There are a lot of things regarding how we treat/manage the dead that I think need to be changed.

[bittersweet]

On a moral level I wholeheartedly support organ donation. It would be comforting to know that my last good deed on the earth would result in saving somebody's life or making it more manageable on a day-to-day basis. Giving somebody the opportunity to live a better quality of life through organ donation is probably one of most selfless and noble acts one individual can do for another. More often than not it determines the difference between life and death. There are instances where the only viable cure is a new organ, considering that the organ waiting list is multitudes longer than the organs available list. Also, I think it's amazing how you hear those stories about organ donation where it alters the recipients personality similar to that of the donors - a part of you is still living much greater than on a physical level - ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

However, I find that there's something a little bit unsettling about a doctor cutting me open, taking out an organ, and sewing me up while my body is hooked up to life-support machine. The question wouldn't be 'am I dead' rather, it would be 'are you dead enough?' My grandfather is in the very late stages of Alzheimer's disease, and according to most sources he is certainly 'dead enough' for organ donation. (i.e "Alzheimer's disease should NOT be a definition of death, but it might be a sufficient condition to bring a human life to an end — especially if organ donation might be wise." [Only registered and activated users can see links]) Let's suppose I'm on the organ donor list... if I'm dying after getting into a really bad car accident - of course! If I'm in a coma and on life support - that's a whole other question all together, i.e euthanasia wholly on the grounds of organ donation.

I'm for it contingent on it being my sole decision. If it's a parent deciding that their dying child's organ should be used to help another individual that's fine seeing as the child is underage, however if I'm an adult who hasn't fully decided whether or not I want to be on the organ donor's list, it shouldn't be an available option for my family, doctors or government to decide unless I had explicitly stated that I wanted to do so. As noble as the act is, the end does not justify the mean unless the donating party willingly consents to it. :)

That all being said, personally I'd do it :)

[Banannie]

Bittersweet, that is a very well thought out and interesting viewpoint to this discussion, especially because it effects you personally. It makes understanding the other side of the debate much easier and in a sense adds more complexity into a situation where we still have yet to decide on 'when' death is for a person who's body is still functioning, and the morality of harvesting a person when the family feels it is not their time. A topic such as this will never be a have your cake and eat it, too sort of a deal. I liked reading your views on this.

[vampyd1977]

i myself am an organ donor and im all for it, if i can do even a little good after my death then so be it. there are so many people without next of kin who leave no instructions for after their deaths that opting out rather than in would be useful in those circumstances if organs were viable.

[twig3721]

I'm with bittersweet on this - medical science has advanced to such a point that we can keep people alive in the face of insane damage/degeneration to the body. It's already scary enough for a lot of people to decide when to "pull the plug" on a loved one who is hovering near death or locked into a vegetative state.

At some point, decisions have to be made about how much time and effort to expend to keep people alive. I'm currently working as an EMT, and while we don't go through wallets to find donor cards in order to determine who we're going to resuscitate, we do occasionally have to make decisions about who receives priority care, the amount of time spent working on a particular patient, etc. Emergency room staff have to make even more of these decisions; they can be difficult decisions, but somebody has to make the call, and some sort of practical criteria must be used. If an ER sees two patients in, a 50-year-old and an 80-year-old, they're going to spend far longer on resuscitation efforts for the 50-year-old. It's not a nice thing to think about, especially if you're the family of the 80-year-old, but it's a practical decision based on chances of survival, quality of life, all that sort of thing. So, what happens to that scenario if organ donation is an opt-out process? There's definitely a better chance that your 50-year-old in this scenario is an organ donor; suddenly, you have a practical reason for stopping resuscitation efforts earlier. After all, this individual obviously has some problems that could shorten his/her lifespan (pre-existing condition, complications related to an accident), while you might have an otherwise very healthy 20-year-old down the hall whose only problem is a malfunctioning kidney. Now, the 20-year-old is a better candidate than the 50-year-old. Why shouldn't the 20-year-old get new organs?

Organ donation is fantastic, but it's a question of who is holding the reins in the decision-making process. Who is impartial enough to make the correct judgments, and does an impartial judge really have the right to say, ok, that person's life is done, because we don't like the quality of that life?

[Kenshin]

You'll be dead. Why not donate your organs they won't be doing you any good anymore.

Anyways i'm a organ donor, everyone else should be to.

[Vegeance]

Depends.

What's the difference?

One, your body decays into dirt and turns into nutrients for other plants, animals, microorganisms to feed on.
Two, your body slowly decays into dirt and turns into nutrients for other plants, animals, microorganisms to feed on--if you're in a grave.
Three, your body is ionized into plasma and turns into galactic dust--if you choose to cremate your body.
Four, you gave your body to be used by someone else, and they also decay, age, and die--leading to the same process... organic decomposition.

But in the very long term.. you'll be galactic dust.

[Minty]

they can take my entire body to a rendering plant if they want to

idk i ain't using it

[bsbgales]

i think organ donation is the best gift you could give someone. Where you`re going that doesn`t work for you but for someone may be the difference between life and dead.