Zimmerman Not Guilty

[Smookie]

Thoughts?

[Dom~]

Atleast let them try and charge him for the child abuse charge :P

[Smookie]

Atleast let them try and charge him for the child abuse charge :P

Are you being serious?
Or are you looking at that charge and laughing at the ridiculousness?

[Jay]

Fucking bullshit.

excuse my french

[Dom~]

Are you being serious?
Or are you looking at that charge and laughing at the ridiculousness?

I just want more time where I can sit down, eat some popcorn, and have a good laugh

[I_royalty_I]

I thought it was interesting how this case got thrust into the limelight. I'm sure this has happened many times over in the months that have passed since this originally happened.

This decision doesn't really effect me at all, I could really care less at this point lol

[legit]

What's this Zimmerman thing I've been hearing about?

[Smookie]

Fucking bullshit.

excuse my french

How is it fucking bullshit?

Is it bullshit that a completely innocent man who acted in self defense is found not guilty?
There was absolutely zero evidence that supported ANY of the claims that the state made.
"feelings" isn't something that wins court cases.

[Allegra]

Disgusting, pretty much
a child

[I_royalty_I]

Disgusting, pretty much
a child


Let's not try to pretend little Trayvon was some sort of angel now. :P

[Smookie]

Disgusting, pretty much
a child


So, you're telling me that a 17 year old who was suspended from school three times, who was caught stealing, who constantly was involved in fights, who tried to purchase a firearm illegally, who bashed George Zimmerman's head into the concrete for 45 seconds, is a child?

[Allegra]

So, you're telling me that a 17 year old who was suspended from school three times, who was caught stealing, who constantly was involved in fights, who tried to purchase a firearm illegally, who bashed George Zimmerman's head into the concrete for 45 seconds, is a child?

I'm confused as to why the kid was singled out and pursued in the first place? What right did this guy have?
And idk, as far as what I've read, there was conflicting evidence as to who was the real aggressor in the situation. I may be wrong, but just based off what I've read.

[Smookie]

I'm confused as to why the kid was singled out and pursued in the first place? What right did this guy have?
And idk, as far as what I've read, there was conflicting evidence as to who was the real aggressor in the situation. I may be wrong, but just based off what I've read.

What right?
There were burglaries that happened all throughout the gated community.
On a dark and rainy night, Trayvon Martin was looking through windows of apartments.

What right?
George Zimmmerman started the Neighborhood Watch to protect his community.
He called the non emergency number and reported Trayvon.
It wasn't his fault that Trayvon decided to jump him and smash his head on the concrete over and over for 45 seconds.

[Allegra]

What right?
There were burglaries that happened all throughout the gated community.
On a dark and rainy night, Trayvon Martin was looking through windows of apartments.

What right?
George Zimmmerman started the Neighborhood Watch to protect his community.
He called the non emergency number and reported Trayvon.
It wasn't his fault that Trayvon decided to jump him and smash his head on the concrete over and over for 45 seconds.

Didn't he take it upon himself to pursue him?
The fact that he got out of his car to follow a kid he didn't know, for what, looking through a window? Already seems wrong to me.

[Smookie]

Didn't he take it upon himself to pursue him?
The fact that he got out of his car to follow a kid he didn't know, for what, looking through a window? Already seems wrong to me.

Are you serious?
The community had a string of burglaries occur over a period of a few weeks.

So, if that was you, you would take no notice of a man peering into windows?

It is NOT illegal to follow someone.
He even called the non-emergency number and reported it.

[Wenis]

I dont know enough about the case to want to be intelligently involved, all that I know is it sucks that the kid lost his life and it also sucks that large numbers of people are so emotionally involved in the case

This case is going to be known as the OJ Simpson case of my younger generation

where the dude was found not guilty but pretty much everyone seems to think otherwise

[Owl]

I have not been following the case, nor do I care, but I do know that our community watch makes it a point to address suspicious behavior. So if someone in my community saw someone creeping in a window, they would step out of their car and ask them what was up.
No one really knows for sure what happened there, and everyone has been arguing about it senselessly. The trial was probably a total mess between media coverage and fuzzy evidence. I feel for everyone involved.

[Smookie]

I dont know enough about the case to want to be intelligently involved, all that I know is it sucks that the kid lost his life and it also sucks that large numbers of people are so emotionally involved in the case

This case is going to be known as the OJ Simpson case of my younger generation

where the dude was found not guilty but pretty much everyone seems to think otherwise

Are you serious?
How could you compare OJ to this..

All of the facts pointed that George Zimmerman acted in self defense.
All of the forensic experts said that the evidence went along with Zimmerman's statements.

Of course it's a shame that the child lost his life.
It's even more of a shame that people think Trayvon hasn't received his justice yet.

[Allegra]

Are you serious?
The community had a string of burglaries occur over a period of a few weeks.

So, if that was you, you would take no notice of a man peering into windows?

It is NOT illegal to follow someone.
He even called the non-emergency number and reported it.

I didn't say it was illegal, I think it was inappropriate and I don't agree with it.
He could have made the call without taking it upon himself to pursue him.
I just think the sad thing is, troubled or not, a kid lost his life and given the conflicting evidence that was provided, there was not a clear case for self defense.

[Wenis]

Are you serious?
How could you compare OJ to this..

All of the facts pointed that George Zimmerman acted in self defense.
All of the forensic experts said that the evidence went along with Zimmerman's statements.

Of course it's a shame that the child lost his life.
It's even more of a shame that people think Trayvon hasn't received his justice yet.


Down boy, yes im being serious, you say facts other say other things, I said I did not know enough about the case to be super involved all that I know is there are many more people in the American community of today that say that Zimmerman was guilty, does that change the fact the he was deemed innocent no but Im comparing it to OJ because everyone thought or says he was guilty and he was found innocent, see what Im saying

Plus the case has been a hurricane of mismatched and out of order things that point in many different direction mostly because of the media coverage

[Owl]

Odd thing is around my town everyone is seriously up in arms over it being race related. I mean super pissed. But last year a local woman was shot nearly to death, in a busy restaraunt, in cold blood. No one called the race card, some were actually cheering about the shooter "trying to get rid of 'em". Lady was Mexican, dude was a local. Year or so later same folks are crying about racism. I don't get this town.

[Smookie]

I didn't say it was illegal, I think it was inappropriate and I don't agree with it.
He could have made the call without taking it upon himself to pursue him.
I just think the sad thing is, troubled or not, a kid lost his life and given the conflicting evidence that was provided, there was not a clear case for self defense.

..How is there not a clear case for self defense?
There could have been a thousand things done differently that would have prevented this loss of life.
How is it Zimmerman's fault that he got JUMPED by Trayvon Martin.
I don't understand how you could possibly justify that.

---------- Post added at 12:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------


Down boy, yes im being serious, you say facts other say other things, I said I did not know enough about the case to be super involved all that I know is there are many more people in the American community of today that say that Zimmerman was guilty, does that change the fact the he was deemed innocent no but Im comparing it to OJ because everyone thought or says he was guilty and he was found innocent, see what Im saying

Plus the case has been a hurricane of mismatched and out of order things that point in many different direction mostly because of the media coverage

People are all in arms because they assume it is a race case.

Oh no!
Did you hear?
A big bad white guy beat up on some little black angel!
This whole system is crooked!
Racist!

You can't possibly persuade these people to look at the evidence in this case.

[Allegra]

Odd thing is around my town everyone is seriously up in arms over it being race related. I mean super pissed. But last year a local woman was shot nearly to death, in a busy restaraunt, in cold blood. No one called the race card, some were actually cheering about the shooter "trying to get rid of 'em". Lady was Mexican, dude was a local. Year or so later same folks are crying about racism. I don't get this town.

Yeah, I think people believe that the reason Zimmerman pursued him in the first place was cause the kid was black.
Not sure I agree with that one, but I think that's the opinion

[Smookie]

Yeah, I think people believe that the reason Zimmerman pursued him in the first place was cause the kid was black.
Not sure I agree with that one, but I think that's the opinion

Of course that's the opinion!
People want to make this case about race.
It really, really wasn't.

If Zimmerman was black, none of this would have happened.
He would have been cleared by the police, like Zimmerman was originally, and went on his way.

[Allegra]

Of course that's the opinion!
People want to make this case about race.
It really, really wasn't.

If Zimmerman was black, none of this would have happened.
He would have been cleared by the police, like Zimmerman was originally, and went on his way.

I agree, I don't think race played a part at all.

[Owl]

Yeah, I think people believe that the reason Zimmerman pursued him in the first place was cause the kid was black.
Not sure I agree with that one, but I think that's the opinion

Iono man, I'd have pursued him just for being a sketchy person- no matter what the shade of his skin. But I probably wouldn't have straight followed the guy. Maybe cruise along in my car at a distance. Idk

[Smookie]

Iono man, I'd have pursued him just for being a sketchy person- no matter what the shade of his skin. But I probably wouldn't have straight followed the guy. Maybe cruise along in my car at a distance. Idk

The thing is, that isn't what happened.
He went to go see where Trayvon went, lost him, and then while he was walking back to his car, he was jumped.

[Owl]

The thing is, that isn't what happened.
He went to go see where Trayvon went, lost him, and then while he was walking back to his car, he was jumped.

Like I said man, I don't care much for the case. I haven't been following it so I really don't know much at all. However, what blew this case up? I mean yeah I get the race card, but this stuff happens all the time. Why this particular one?

---------- Post added at 02:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 AM ----------

There's been stuff like this all-over-my-wall.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Smookie]

Like I said man, I don't care much for the case. I haven't been following it so I really don't know much at all. However, what blew this case up? I mean yeah I get the race card, but this stuff happens all the time. Why this particular one?

Well, when this first happened, the police let Zimmerman go because it was clearly self defense.
The parents of Trayvon Martin were so outraged, that they decided to trademark Trayvon's name and make over ONE MILLION dollars out of their sons death.
Then, they pleaded and pleaded and the governor allowed this to go to court.
It should have NEVER went in front of the jury.

[IndigoSunset]

It is NOT illegal to follow someone.

Nope, but if you were out for a stroll and someone started following you with a gun it's not unreasonable to feel threatened.
Also, shouldn't the Stand Your Ground rules also apply to Martin? If someone is following you with a gun in the rain then I don't think it's unreasonable to fear death or great bodily harm. What's fucked up is that law that says it's ok to attack.

[Smookie]

Nope, but if you were out for a stroll and someone started following you with a gun it's not unreasonable to feel threatened.
Also, shouldn't the Stand Your Ground rules also apply to Martin? If someone is following you with a gun in the rain then I don't think it's unreasonable to fear death or great bodily harm. What's fucked up is that law that says it's ok to attack.

What are you talking about?
Zimmerman did NOT have his gun out while he was following Trayvon.
Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Trayvon JUMPED him.
Of course it's okay to attack when you are getting your head bashed into the concrete for 45 seconds.
It'd be entirely fucked up if he wasn't able to attack back.

[IndigoSunset]

What are you talking about?
Zimmerman did NOT have his gun out while he was following Trayvon.
Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Trayvon JUMPED him.
Of course it's okay to attack when you are getting your head bashed into the concrete for 45 seconds.
It'd be entirely fucked up if he wasn't able to attack back.

Well if he was lying on his back with Martin on top of him with the gun holstered behind him then you try drawing your weapon in that situation. Which would suggest he had his gun drawn.

Also, just by the by, is there any reason you call Zimmerman by his surname but Martin by his first?

[Allegra]

What are you talking about?
Zimmerman did NOT have his gun out while he was following Trayvon.
Zimmerman was walking back to his car when Trayvon JUMPED him.
Of course it's okay to attack when you are getting your head bashed into the concrete for 45 seconds.
It'd be entirely fucked up if he wasn't able to attack back.

Can I just politely request you provide the rest of us with where you're getting this information? I'm curious, clearly I've not read into it as much as I thought.
Is this all just purely from Zimmerman's statement?

[Batgirl]

Smookie


Man I've never seen someone so worked up about a case. I get being passionate, but can we be a little like respectful in our arguments?

[j03]

Smookie Can you back up the things you've said so far? I watched this on CNN and other television programs and not one of them said these claims. :S

Zimmerman called the police about him and told them he was following him. The cops clearly said to leave him alone and let them handle it. He did not listen, he kept following him. This alone should close the case, no?

Seems to me this is just about race. Zimmerman went after this kid only because he was black.

[Allegra]

Smookie Can you back up the things you've said so far? I watched this on CNN and other television programs and not one of them said these claims. :S

Zimmerman called the police about him and told them he was following him. The cops clearly said to leave him alone and let them handle it. He did not listen, he kept following him. This alone should close the case, no?

Seems to me this is just about race. Zimmerman went after this kid only because he was black.

Exactly, the guy was trying to act the hero without cause or reason.

[j03]

Did you guys not hear the recorded phone calls? As the black people on the internet say, "SMH".

[Spoof04]

I have a few things to say about this.

This trial has really had some surprising twists and turns. My initial feelings, when I saw the Jury was all female and 5/6 were married...and the Judge was a woman...I thought shit man, they really are not giving this guy a fair trial, they are manipulating the outcome because of how they seemingly picked a bias group of judges. I'm glad I was wrong.

Its not a popular opinion but I do believe that Zimmerman was within his legal right to self defense. I'm really glad the ruling was handed down the way it was.

The Prosecuting Attorney tried sooo hard to make Martin sound like an innocent little kid eating candy in a hoodie. Kept repeating things like "This CHILD" yada yada yada. Do children buy guns then take pictures of said gun, then take pictures of themselves smoking pot? One thing to remember is that in less than a year he would be legally old enough to die for his country. He really was less of a child, more of a young adult.

I do deeply empathize for the parents but they really tried too hard to pull the race card. It also must be hard for them knowing what their son was like with the guns and drugs, and then be force-feeding the media this pristine image of a happy go lucky skittle eating kid.

Also it was fecking ridiculous when Martins female friend who was on the phone with him, tried to out right deny that 'crazy ass cracka' wasn't a racial comment. I'm sorry but she looked, and sounded, pathetic. She could have said yeah it was, but no....I seriously wanted to jump through my tv and smack a bitch.

Anyways *dodges projectiles* This was my opinion. If you supported Martin, you have that right, I'm not going to fight with you over your opinion. Laws need to be defined, when there are grey areas like when self defense turns to murder, its healthy and intelligent to discuss those boundaries.

[Smookie]

Smookie Can you back up the things you've said so far? I watched this on CNN and other television programs and not one of them said these claims. :S

Zimmerman called the police about him and told them he was following him. The cops clearly said to leave him alone and let them handle it. He did not listen, he kept following him. This alone should close the case, no?

Seems to me this is just about race. Zimmerman went after this kid only because he was black.

Of course Joe!
The operator said this
"We don't need you to do that sir"
The non-emergency number has absolutely no legal authority.
The operator asked for a street name so George Zimmerman went to get it.
When he was walking back to his car, he was confronted by Trayvon Martin.

That's the problem, you are making it about race.
There have been a bunch of burglaries in the area where Zimmerman lived.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Trayvon Martin was looking in windows of apartments on a rainy night.

---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------


Did you guys not hear the recorded phone calls? As the black people on the internet say, "SMH".

The recorded phone calls?
Those showed Zimmerman screaming for help for 45 seconds..

[IndigoSunset]

Martin lived nearby therefore presumably had also heard about the recent break ins. Imagine you're walking back from the shops one rainy night and an armed man starts chasing after you for no apparent reason. Just as you say there's nothing wrong with following someone, so there's nothing wrong with looking at windows as you walk past. That's no justification for shooting someone.

[Empress]

The only reason why the case was a big deal was the race thing.
I think the defense won the jury when they pointed out that concrete can be a weapon.

[Smookie]

Martin lived nearby therefore presumably had also heard about the recent break ins. Imagine you're walking back from the shops one rainy night and an armed man starts chasing after you for no apparent reason. Just as you say there's nothing wrong with following someone, so there's nothing wrong with looking at windows as you walk past. That's no justification for shooting someone.

I think you're completely missing what actually happened.
Trayvon Martin went and attacked George Zimmerman and BASHED his head into concrete for 45 seconds.
So, you're telling me, that if you were getting your head bashed in by a 17 year old black male, you wouldn't try to save your life and pull your legally owned gun out?

[Raj]

Smookie I probably would, but would you shoot to kill? That is the real question which you seem to be ignoring. Let's not forget, while it may be self defense and while he was ruled innocent, he still killed someone.

[Smookie]

Smookie I probably would, but would you shoot to kill? That is the real question which you seem to be ignoring. Let's not forget, while it may be self defense and while he was ruled innocent, he still killed someone.

So, let me ask you.
Imagine getting your head bashed into concrete for 45 seconds.
Imagine screaming out for help over and over and having no one coming to help.
Would you be thinking
"Well, let me consider where I should shoot this innocent boy."

Do you think it was possible, while getting straddled, to point the gun somewhere else?

[Raj]

So, let me ask you.
Imagine getting your head bashed into concrete for 45 seconds.
Imagine screaming out for help over and over and having no one coming to help.
Would you be thinking
"Well, let me consider where I should shoot this innocent boy."

Do you think it was possible, while getting straddled, to point the gun somewhere else?

Innocent? By no means am I calling Martin innocent. I'm saying that your defense of Zimmerman is irrational - it may be self defense but it is not okay to kill. And yes, it is very possible. You can shoot him somewhere, anywhere as long as it's not his head or his chest. It's not that hard. Pick a target.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He'll be there all day. Look at how easy it is to not shoot at his head or his chest.

[Smookie]

Innocent? By no means am I calling Martin innocent. I'm saying that your defense of Zimmerman is irrational - it may be self defense but it is not okay to kill. And yes, it is very possible. You can shoot him somewhere, anywhere as long as it's not his head or his chest. It's not that hard. Pick a target.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He'll be there all day. Look at how easy it is to not shoot at his head or his chest.

Are you serious?
You obviously have no idea of what happened.
Trayvon Martin was on top of George Zimmerman.
How could he have possibly been able to get a proper shot off?
Trayvon Martin was smashing Zimmerman's head against the ground over and over.

[Scaletta01]

IF what he said actually happened, he has the right to kill if he feels he is in danger. I want you to be in that situation, do you live or do you die because you want to save some "kid's" life?

If I'm in danger and I could die/be hurt badly, my life is more important than the attacker's.

[Allegra]

Are you serious?
You obviously have no idea of what happened.
Trayvon Martin was on top of George Zimmerman.
How could he have possibly been able to get a proper shot off?
Trayvon Martin was smashing Zimmerman's head against the ground over and over.

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you have to assume they're ignorant.
And about what Joe was saying about the phone calls, there was dispute over whether it was Zimmerman or Trayvon yelling for help.

[Smookie]

Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean you have to assume they're ignorant.
And about what Joe was saying about the phone calls, there was dispute over whether it was Zimmerman or Trayvon yelling for help.

..He misstated facts.
Fine, he's just plain wrong.

You do know that the father of Trayvon Martin told police originally that
"The screaming wasn't my son"

Of course, with all the media hype he changed that.

[Allegra]

..He misstated facts.
Fine, he's just plain wrong.

You do know that the father of Trayvon Martin told police originally that
"The screaming wasn't my son"

Of course, with all the media hype he changed that.

I'm pretty sure I'm reading the same thing as you, he didn't state any facts differently to what you did except that he expressed his opinion that the gun could have been aimed somewhere else?
I've read that the mother was the one who swore she heard Trayvon on the recording. And again, could you please provide us with your source of information/point us in the right direction, since clearly we don't know as much as you do.

[Smookie]

I'm pretty sure I'm reading the same thing as you, he didn't state any facts differently to what you did except that he expressed his opinion that the gun could have been aimed somewhere else?
I've read that the mother was the one who swore she heard Trayvon on the recording. And again, could you please provide us with your source of information/point us in the right direction, since clearly we don't know as much as you do.

Look at his post..
Even, look at the picture he posted.

Exactly, and Zimmerman's family swore that it was his voice!
So, the father was mistaken?

What information would you live to know?

[Savant]

Zimmerman is guilty. Got away with it plain and simple. Our "justice system" is a fucking joke. If you think its not then your wrong.

[Smookie]

Zimmerman is guilty. Got away with it plain and simple. Our "justice system" is a fucking joke. If you think its not then your wrong.

What exactly is he guilty of?
I mean, he did kill Trayvon Martin, however that was in self defense.

For once, unlike Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson, the justice system worked as attended.

[Raj]

Look at his post..
Even, look at the picture he posted.

Exactly, and Zimmerman's family swore that it was his voice!
So, the father was mistaken?

What information would you live to know?

Whats up with the pic I posted? Is he not black enough to represent trayvon martin or something? I just googled "human" to visually represent my point.

[Savant]

It wasn't his place to follow Trayvon for any reason. Neighborhood WATCH is just that.. WATCH and report to proper people. A mother lost her son because of Zimmerman. Self defense or cold blooded murder. Neither would have happened if Zimmermans punk ass didn't get outta his car like superman outta a phone booth. He should have went on his way and let the police handle it.

[Smookie]

Whats up with the pic I posted? Is he not black enough to represent trayvon martin or something? I just googled "human" to visually represent my point.

Trayvon Martin wasn't standing up..
He was on top of George Zimmerman smashing his head into the concrete.
You aren't thinking about this at all logically.

---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------


It wasn't his place to follow Trayvon for any reason. Neighborhood WATCH is just that.. WATCH and report to proper people. A mother lost her son because of Zimmerman. Self defense or cold blooded murder. Neither would have happened if Zimmermans punk ass didn't get outta his car like superman outta a phone booth. He should have went on his way and let the police handle it.

It also wasn't Trayvon's place to jump Zimmerman and smash his head into the concrete for 45 seconds.
Imagine if Trayvon wasn't high on Marijuana and wasn't peering into windows.
Imagine if Trayvon didn't decide to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.
He would have been able to walk home with his skittles and watermelon ice tea.

[Raj]

Smookie so because I try to respectfully disagree it means I am not thinking logically?

[Smookie]

Smookie so because I try to respectfully disagree it means I am not thinking logically?


..what
That isn't it at all..
I love how you're trying to twist my words around.
sigh, you aren't trying to debate at all.

[Savant]

Zimmerman is a fuckin joke Smookie and for you trying to stand up for him... silly.

Take a look at this... Its a record of his 46 911 calls he made since 04-Til Shooting. So much bullshit in there is hard to comprehend.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

One of my favorites is this..
36. April 22, 2011 � 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male �apprx 7�9� years old, four feet tall �skinny build short blk hair� last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

A 7-9 yr old boy is "Suspicious" to Zimmerman?! Are you fucking kidding me? Lets call the cops today because I saw I kid outside. Oh my stars!! A Kid?! OH NOO!!!!!

[Savant]

Edit: Double posted my above statement.

[Raj]

Trayvon Martin wasn't standing up..
He was on top of George Zimmerman smashing his head into the concrete.
You aren't thinking about this at all logically.


Smookie so because I try to respectfully disagree it means I am not thinking logically?


..what
That isn't it at all..
I love how you're trying to twist my words around.
sigh, you aren't trying to debate at all.

That isn't it at all? You explicitly stated it right there. And now I'm not trying to debate at all? I was trying to debate but you continously shot down my responses with ad hominem responses about my illogical responses? Two can play at this game, then...

[Smookie]

Zimmerman is a fuckin joke Smookie and for you trying to stand up for him... silly.

Take a look at this... Its a record of his 46 911 calls he made since 04-Til Shooting. So much bullshit in there is hard to comprehend.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

One of my favorites is this..
36. April 22, 2011 � 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male �apprx 7�9� years old, four feet tall �skinny build short blk hair� last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

A 7-9 yr old boy is "Suspicious" to Zimmerman?! Are you fucking kidding me? Lets call the cops today because I saw I kid outside. Oh my stars!! A Kid?! OH NOO!!!!!

..what
This has absolutely nothing to do that he was JUMPED by Trayvon Martin.
Of course, anyone who you haven't seen in the neighborhood before is suspicious.
He could have been lost.

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------


That isn't it at all? You explicitly stated it right there. And now I'm not trying to debate at all? I was trying to debate but you continously shot down my responses with ad hominem responses about my illogical responses? Two can play at this game, then...

You are trying to debate this with "feelings"
You aren't even looking at ANY of the facts.

[Savant]

Trayvon Martin wasn't standing up..
He was on top of George Zimmerman smashing his head into the concrete.
You aren't thinking about this at all logically.

---------- Post added at 06:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------



It also wasn't Trayvon's place to jump Zimmerman and smash his head into the concrete for 45 seconds.
Imagine if Trayvon wasn't high on Marijuana and wasn't peering into windows.
Imagine if Trayvon didn't decide to jump Zimmerman and try to kill him.
He would have been able to walk home with his skittles and watermelon ice tea.

The autopsy report stated that Martin had trace levels of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his blood and urine.[135][136] The toxicology report found the levels to be 1.5 nanograms/ml of THC and 7.3 nanograms/ml of THC-COOH, a metabolite of THC that can stay in the system for weeks after cannabis has been smoked.[135][136] Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science, stated that the THC amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior.

This was part of the autopsy report taken. So your "imagine Trayvon wasn't high on Marijuana" seems to be just another racist remark by yourself. He is black therefore he must be high? The forensic scientist said himself it was so low that it could have been days earlier.
Lets push that subject a bit farther too. Have you ever smoked weed? Do you have any clue how you feel? What you do? Anything besides what other people tell you? Because if you have then you would know. Weed doesn't make you "smash his head into concrete for 45 seconds" Which you repeat over and over. The gun used on Trayvon has him in his grave forever. But thats ok? It was self defense right? A Broke nose and 2 cut on his head vs dead 17 yr old and crushed family who wins out on this one exactly?

[Smookie]

The autopsy report stated that Martin had trace levels of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his blood and urine.[135][136] The toxicology report found the levels to be 1.5 nanograms/ml of THC and 7.3 nanograms/ml of THC-COOH, a metabolite of THC that can stay in the system for weeks after cannabis has been smoked.[135][136] Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science, stated that the THC amount was so low that it may have been ingested days earlier and played no role in Martin's behavior.

This was part of the autopsy report taken. So your "imagine Trayvon wasn't high on Marijuana" seems to be just another racist remark by yourself. He is black therefore he must be high? The forensic scientist said himself it was so low that it could have been days earlier.
Lets push that subject a bit farther too. Have you ever smoked weed? Do you have any clue how you feel? What you do? Anything besides what other people tell you? Because if you have then you would know. Weed doesn't make you "smash his head into concrete for 45 seconds" Which you repeat over and over. The gun used on Trayvon has him in his grave forever. But thats ok? It was self defense right? A Broke nose and 2 cut on his head vs dead 17 yr old and crushed family who wins out on this one exactly?

I'm so confused, why does the media want this to be about race.
This case was NEVER about race, people just wanted it to be.

Let me humor your marijuana theory by quoting the state's medical examiner.

Shiping Bao, the medical examiner who autopsied Trayvon Martin, testified that the pot in the teen's system "could have" altered his mind and body the night he died.

You brought up the point yourself, weed doesn't make you bash someone's head into the concrete for 45 seconds.

So, what does?

I guess Trayvon wasn't this angel you are making him out to be.

Trayvon has gotten into fights before, Trayvon has stolen jewelry from houses before, Trayvon has gotten suspended from school three times.

[Raj]

You are trying to debate this with "feelings"
You aren't even looking at ANY of the facts.

My original stance was that trayvon martin was not an innocent child (which, because you attacked me the way you did, you assumed I believed) but george zimmerman should not have killed him. Self defense is beyond just killing, but you don't seem to understand that.

Either way, before I get warned or something for not following the debate rules, I'm out. Have fun arguing Smookie.

[Savant]

So he has gotten into fights before? He deserves to die. (Who hasn't? Oh and for all you know. THOSE fights could have been your beloved "Self Defense" which in turn 0 tolerance rules got him suspended from school)
He has stolen something before? He deserves to die. (So did everyone at some point in life, steal SOMETHING. Be it gum or jewelry.)
He has be suspended before? He deserves to die. (So were prissy girls from my school when I was a kid.)

The amounts of weed were so trace that it could have been in his system from days or even weeks before. (Oh just so you know... your not high on weed for days and days. It does wear off shortly after smoking)
What makes someone smash someone head into the concrete? Hmm wel in this case... I guess the GROWN man following the kid who let me add was 30+ pounds heavier than Trayvon was following him and confronted him. Which I am sure by his apparent love for black people who talked SOOO nice to the kid that Trayvon exploded with joy and smashed Zimmermans head into the concrete!

[Smookie]

So he has gotten into fights before? He deserves to die. (Who hasn't? Oh and for all you know. THOSE fights could have been your beloved "Self Defense" which in turn 0 tolerance rules got him suspended from school)
He has stolen something before? He deserves to die. (So did everyone at some point in life, steal SOMETHING. Be it gum or jewelry.)
He has be suspended before? He deserves to die. (So were prissy girls from my school when I was a kid.)

The amounts of weed were so trace that it could have been in his system from days or even weeks before. (Oh just so you know... your not high on weed for days and days. It does wear off shortly after smoking)
What makes someone smash someone head into the concrete? Hmm wel in this case... I guess the GROWN man following the kid who let me add was 30+ pounds heavier than Trayvon was following him and confronted him. Which I am sure by his apparent love for black people who talked SOOO nice to the kid that Trayvon exploded with joy and smashed Zimmermans head into the concrete!

Hmm, so if someone is following you, which btw is 100% legal, you have the right to bash their heads into the concrete for 45 seconds?
I never said that he deserved to die, no one deserves that!
You just have this image of some innocent angel, which is wrong.

[Savant]

Please feel free to quote my Innocent Angel statement I made. I will +Rep you for it. Because I didn't.

And it wasn't just him bashing his head into the concrete for 45 seconds by the way. Witness statements said they saw the scuffling in the grass at some point. So the 45 seconds wasn't just Trayvon on top of Zimmerman hands full of head and repeated pounding into the ground. Lets get that shit straight right now. It was a scuffle that went to the ground. Zimmerman had a broke nose and only 2 vertical cuts on the back of his head. 45 seconds of concrete? His head must be made of fucking diamonds huh?

[Smookie]

Well, next time you're getting your head bashed into concrete and you yell for help for 45 seconds, let me know what you'd do.

[Raj]

Please feel free to quote my Innocent Angel statement I made. I will +Rep you for it. Because I didn't.

And it wasn't just him bashing his head into the concrete for 45 seconds by the way. Witness statements said they saw the scuffling in the grass at some point. So the 45 seconds wasn't just Trayvon on top of Zimmerman hands full of head and repeated pounding into the ground. Lets get that shit straight right now. It was a scuffle that went to the ground. Zimmerman had a broke nose and only 2 vertical cuts on the back of his head. 45 seconds of concrete? His head must be made of fucking diamonds huh?


Well, next time you're getting your head bashed into concrete and you yell for help for 45 seconds, let me know what you'd do.

Smookie now you just aren't addressing what Savant is saying. The witnesses say the scuffle wasn't one-sided like you'd like to believe. It was both of them attacking each other. I think you're the one trying to make Zimmerman out to be an angel, not us trying to make Trayvon an angel (like you claim we are).

[Savant]

This debate isn't about what Savant would do. Because if you want the honest to god truth about what I would do. I would have killed Zimmerman for being such a racist prick asshole. Calling the cops on potholes, dogs, and blacks. Wtf is wrong with this guy?

But to ease your mind if someone had beat my head into concrete for 45 seconds(which let me say again is what DID NOT FUCKING HAPPEN AT ALL!) then I guess I would have struggled to the gun I had on me from the start (if I wasnt so fuckin dazed from the concrete) and killed myself an under aged black kid and claim self defense. OR I could have just defended my own life by not getting involved in an event that I had no business sticking my nose in to start with?

[Smookie]

This debate isn't about what Savant would do. Because if you want the honest to god truth about what I would do. I would have killed Zimmerman for being such a racist prick asshole. Calling the cops on potholes, dogs, and blacks. Wtf is wrong with this guy?

But to ease your mind if someone had beat my head into concrete for 45 seconds(which let me say again is what DID NOT FUCKING HAPPEN AT ALL!) then I guess I would have struggled to the gun I had on me from the start (if I wasnt so fuckin dazed from the concrete) and killed myself an under aged black kid and claim self defense. OR I could have just defended my own life by not getting involved in an event that I had no business sticking my nose in to start with?

omg lol
You're the type of person that is making this about race.
George Zimmerman isn't racist.
Look at yourself.

Like, just look at the situation.
Go look at Witness testimonies about the incident.

I know that Nancy Grace has touched your heart deeply, but come on..

He did defend his life, he did the only thing he could have done.

Zimmerman yelled for help 14 times in 34 seconds.

Imagine..
Screaming for your life and having no one come to your side.

[Raj]

Smookie now you just aren't addressing what Savant is saying. The witnesses say the scuffle wasn't one-sided like you'd like to believe. It was both of them attacking each other. I think you're the one trying to make Zimmerman out to be an angel, not us trying to make Trayvon an angel (like you claim we are).

Why are you ignoring my statement, Smookie? I'll say it again if you didn't catch it the first time: why are you trying to make it seem like Zimmerman did nothing wrong?

[Savant]

LOL!!! He did the only thing he could have done? HOW ABOUT NOT CONFRONTING HIM AFTER CALLING THE COPS?! You officially have went off the deep end. He IS a racist. He did kill a 17 yr old kid. He got away with it.

Self-defense laws in the United States, particularly regarding justifiable homicide, vary by state. Florida law, as of 2005, includes a "stand your ground" provision, under which a person, who reasonably fears death or great bodily harm (the ordinary deadly self-defense requirement) is relieved of the common-law requirement that one first attempt to retreat, if one can safely do so, before using deadly force.[321][322] In almost all states, such laws exempt people in their own homes; Florida's version extends the no-retreat doctrine to vehicles and public places. In at least 17 states, including Florida, there is no duty to retreat before using force.[323][324] After the shooting, media reports had indicated that Zimmerman would most likely use the "Stand Your Ground" provision in Florida's self-defense law.

Zimmerman knew that he didn't have to retreat before using deadly force. Instead that bastard brought the action to himself. Approached a kid while having a gun on himself and .. (let me use a witness statement here since you think itll help your debate) --- Cutcher and her roommate heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees straddling Martin on the ground.

So this so called 45 seconds of hard rock head banging wasn't anything like you think it is. Zimmerman was straddling Martin after he fucking shot the kid in the god dam chest.

[Scaletta01]

People can speculate as much as they want, but there wasn't enough evidence provided by the State nor anyone else to support Trayvon's side. Simple as that. Case can't be redone, it is what it is.

[Savant]

Hard for someone to stand up for themselves and tell their side of the story when you die from a gunshot wound to the chest... smh

[Scaletta01]

I don't see why it's still being discussed. I could be shot in the same situation and NO ONE would care outside of where I live, same for anyone else. All it is, well is race. No one cares about how young he was or anything else.

Blown out of proportion.

[Smookie]

Why are you ignoring my statement, Smookie? I'll say it again if you didn't catch it the first time: why are you trying to make it seem like Zimmerman did nothing wrong?

What did he do wrong?

[Raj]

What did he do wrong?

HE KILLED SOMEONE.

[Allegra]

What did he do wrong?

The very first thing he did wrong, and probably the most fatal mistake, was taking it upon himself to follow a kid without reason. Tried to act all high and mighty, as if he had some authority to follow a complete stranger around.

[Smookie]

LOL!!! He did the only thing he could have done? HOW ABOUT NOT CONFRONTING HIM AFTER CALLING THE COPS?! You officially have went off the deep end. He IS a racist. He did kill a 17 yr old kid. He got away with it.

Self-defense laws in the United States, particularly regarding justifiable homicide, vary by state. Florida law, as of 2005, includes a "stand your ground" provision, under which a person, who reasonably fears death or great bodily harm (the ordinary deadly self-defense requirement) is relieved of the common-law requirement that one first attempt to retreat, if one can safely do so, before using deadly force.[321][322] In almost all states, such laws exempt people in their own homes; Florida's version extends the no-retreat doctrine to vehicles and public places. In at least 17 states, including Florida, there is no duty to retreat before using force.[323][324] After the shooting, media reports had indicated that Zimmerman would most likely use the "Stand Your Ground" provision in Florida's self-defense law.

Zimmerman knew that he didn't have to retreat before using deadly force. Instead that bastard brought the action to himself. Approached a kid while having a gun on himself and .. (let me use a witness statement here since you think itll help your debate) --- Cutcher and her roommate heard the pair in their backyard and a "very young voice" whining, with no sounds of a fight. They heard a gunshot; the crying stopped immediately, and they saw Zimmerman on his knees straddling Martin on the ground.

So this so called 45 seconds of hard rock head banging wasn't anything like you think it is. Zimmerman was straddling Martin after he fucking shot the kid in the god dam chest.

You really have no idea what the word racist means.
That's okay though!

So, you're telling me that the father of Trayvon Martin was wrong?
You're saying that the father was wrong about Trayvon's voice?

Trayvon caused his own death.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------


HE KILLED SOMEONE.

In pure self defense..
It wasn't Zimmerman's fault that Trayvon decided to jump him and smash his head into concrete repeatedly.


The very first thing he did wrong, and probably the most fatal mistake, was taking it upon himself to follow a kid without reason. Tried to act all high and mighty, as if he had some authority to follow a complete stranger around.

Are you really saying that seriously?
That is COMPLETELY legal to do.

So, you're telling me that his most fatal flaw was a legal one?

[Raj]

Smookie Again, this goes back to my earlier points. You don't just kill someone in self defense. You can hurt them back and such but killing is too far, which is why I disagree with you.

[Smookie]

Smookie Again, this goes back to my earlier points. You don't just kill someone in self defense. You can hurt them back and such but killing is too far, which is why I disagree with you.

Alright, then!
Tell me, what should have Zimmerman done?

[Raj]

Smookie Gee, I don't know, aim somewhere else?

[Allegra]

You really have no idea what the word racist means.
That's okay though!

So, you're telling me that the father of Trayvon Martin was wrong?
You're saying that the father was wrong about Trayvon's voice?

Trayvon caused his own death.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------



In pure self defense..
It wasn't Zimmerman's fault that Trayvon decided to jump him and smash his head into concrete repeatedly.



Are you really saying that seriously?
That is COMPLETELY legal to do.

So, you're telling me that his most fatal flaw was a legal one?

Legal or not, it was NOT his place to do so. He had no authority or right. He obviously made the kid threatened and/or scared, as would be a normal reaction when pursued by a complete stranger. It seems entirely antagonistic to me and it ended up with a lost life.

[Scaletta01]

No it's not wrong to kill someone in self defense. Let's ask you a hypothetical question:

Say you were in your house and someone broke in, you have a gun in a holster on your side. That said person sees you and they grab you, throwing you down and threatening to kill you and your family. You have 1 chance to save yourself, then do you kill the man?

I know I would, no room for such a person anyways.

[Smookie]

Smookie Gee, I don't know, aim somewhere else?

That's the thing you don't get..
Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the gun shot went off.
Before that, he was getting his head smashed into concrete.
The gun that Zimmerman had did not have a safety.
With the position that Trayvon had Zimmerman in, there wasn't any room for Zimmerman to even aim.
That doesn't change the facts of what happened.

[Scaletta01]

That's the thing you don't get..
Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the gun shot went off.
Before that, he was getting his head smashed into concrete.
The gun that Zimmerman had did not have a safety.
With the position that Trayvon had Zimmerman in, there wasn't any room for Zimmerman to even aim.
That doesn't change the facts of what happened.

Along with this: You don't even have the time to, neither. 1 or none.

[Smookie]

Legal or not, it was NOT his place to do so. He had no authority or right. He obviously made the kid threatened and/or scared, as would be a normal reaction when pursued by a complete stranger. It seems entirely antagonistic to me and it ended up with a lost life.

So, a normal reaction is to attack Zimmerman and bash his head into the concrete?
A normal reaction is to do so for over 45 seconds?
A normal reaction is to not stop even when Zimmerman has screamed for help over 14 times?

[Raj]

No it's not wrong to kill someone in self defense. Let's ask you a hypothetical question:

Say you were in your house and someone broke in, you have a gun in a holster on your side. That said person sees you and they grab you, throwing you down and threatening to kill you and your family. You have 1 chance to save yourself, then do you kill the man?

I know I would, no room for such a person anyways.

Of course I would kill them. But is that even remotely the same situation? NO. If someone threatens to kill my family, I have zero patience with them. You're comparing apples to oranges here.


That's the thing you don't get..
Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the gun shot went off.
Before that, he was getting his head smashed into concrete.
The gun that Zimmerman had did not have a safety.
With the position that Trayvon had Zimmerman in, there wasn't any room for Zimmerman to even aim.
That doesn't change the facts of what happened.

Where did you hear that Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the gunshot went off? Source please? I haven't heard this information previously.

[Allegra]

So, a normal reaction is to attack Zimmerman and bash his head into the concrete?
A normal reaction is to do so for over 45 seconds?
A normal reaction is to not stop even when Zimmerman has screamed for help over 14 times?

No, it's not.
But I don't even believe his head was bashed into the concrete either for that long or with such force. He'd have walked away significantly more injured than he was.

[Scaletta01]

Of course I would kill them. But is that even remotely the same situation? NO. If someone threatens to kill my family, I have zero patience with them. You're comparing apples to oranges here.



Where did you hear that Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the gunshot went off? Source please? I haven't heard this information previously.

Your argument is invalid. Didn't you just say that killing a man in self defense is wrong?

kthxbai.

[Raj]

Your argument is invalid. Didn't you just say that killing a man in self defense is wrong?

kthxbai.

Do you think that what you're hypothetically saying is even close to the same situation?

[Smookie]

Of course I would kill them. But is that even remotely the same situation? NO. If someone threatens to kill my family, I have zero patience with them. You're comparing apples to oranges here.



I'm just curious here..
If you were getting your head smashed into concrete again and again and again, you wouldn't try protecting yourself?
You'd be completely fine with it?

[Scaletta01]

Do you think that what you're hypothetically saying is even close to the same situation?

A man was killed.

[Smookie]

No, it's not.
But I don't even believe his head was bashed into the concrete either for that long or with such force. He'd have walked away significantly more injured than he was.

So, what is your point?

[Allegra]

By the way, as for Zimmerman getting his head oh so brutally bashed into concrete for 45 seconds, I found this interesting:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

My point is, let alone following the kid for no reason, I don't even believe he was in a life threatening situation.

[Smookie]

By the way, as for Zimmerman getting his head oh so brutally bashed into concrete for 45 seconds, I found this interesting:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

My point is, let alone following the kid for no reason, I don't even believe he was in a life threatening situation.

How fascinating.
You're reading what Shiping Bao said.
I really wish you'd look into what happened with that witness.
Or how you have no idea what DiMaro said.
You should know your facts!

[Raj]

I'm just curious here..
If you were getting your head smashed into concrete again and again and again, you wouldn't try protecting yourself?
You'd be completely fine with it?

Of course I wouldn't...but oh if only that were the case in real life. If Zimmerman actually did get his head bashed into the concrete as you so valiantly believe, he'd have suffered more than a broken nose and cuts.


A man was killed.

See, the difference is that Martin was not posing a death threat to Zimmerman, like it is in your hypothetical situation. Martin wasn't going to kill anyone's family in this issue like the guy is in your situation. This whole thing could have been avoided though, if Zimmerman hadn't stepped out and pursued a person looking into a window.

kthxbai

[Allegra]

How fascinating.
You're reading what Shiping Bao said.
I really wish you'd look into what happened with that witness.
Or how you have no idea what DiMaro said.
You should know your facts!

What are you talking about?
it's everywhere. The medical examiner assigned simply concluded that his injuries were not life threatening.

[Scaletta01]

Of course I wouldn't...but oh if only that were the case in real life. If Zimmerman actually did get his head bashed into the concrete as you so valiantly believe, he'd have suffered more than a broken nose and cuts.



See, the difference is that Martin was not posing a death threat to Zimmerman, like it is in your hypothetical situation. Martin wasn't going to kill anyone's family in this issue like the guy is in your situation. This whole thing could have been avoided though, if Zimmerman hadn't stepped out and pursued a person looking into a window.

kthxbai

Can't change the fact a man was killed. Regardless of family or not, my life is in danger, I kill.

[Smookie]

What are you talking about?
it's everywhere. The medical examiner assigned simply concluded that his injuries were not life threatening.

I'll humor you for a bit.
Larry Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist, told CNN that Bao was “an unmitigated disaster for the prosecution. To end with Dr. Bao, it couldn’t be worse.”

Kobilinsky dismissed Bao as “amateurish” and said the medical examiner lost credibility with every cross-examination question.

Steve Raiser, a criminal defense attorney, told Fox News Channel that Bao’s testimony was “quite frankly terrible” because Bao couldn’t remember Trayvon Martin’s autopsy. But Raiser noted that Bao’s testimony that the bullet went straight through Trayvon’s heart undermined the defense argument there was a struggle for the weapon.

Orlando attorney Mark NeJame, a legal analyst for CNN, said the state ran “a beautiful, organized trial as it relates to telling a story,” but with Bao “it all unraveled.”

CNN’s Jean Casarez said she had never seen anything like Bao’s testimony in a courtroom.

WOFL-Channel 35 legal analyst Diana Tennis seconded that view. “He was off the charts,” she told Keith Landry on “Orlando Matters.” “This guy really cost the state a lot. To be the last witness — just not good.” Tennis was astonished that Bao didn’t understand court protocol and looked biased in favor of the state.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------


Of course I wouldn't...but oh if only that were the case in real life. If Zimmerman actually did get his head bashed into the concrete as you so valiantly believe, he'd have suffered more than a broken nose and cuts.


He did though.
BOTH medical examiners for the state and the defense said that his injuries were consistent with that happening.
Go look at what the witnesses testified to.

[Raj]

Can't change the fact a man was killed. Regardless of family or not, my life is in danger, I kill.

Well, that's your own problem then, which I won't debate or else we'll get off topic.


He did though.
BOTH medical examiners for the state and the defense said that his injuries were consistent with that happening.
Go look at what the witnesses testified to.

Can you provide a source for any of this? I've been digging through videos but couldn't find relevance to your point. I'd appreciate it if you could help me out here.

[Scaletta01]

I guess you would let it happen to you and do nothing. People these days -.-

Then they complain about it.

[Raj]

I guess you would let it happen to you and do nothing. People these days -.-

Then they complain about it.

Do you think I'd do nothing? Of course I would do something.

But would I kill? No.

[Scaletta01]

Cry to the police and nothing happens.

[Allegra]

I'll humor you for a bit.
Larry Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist, told CNN that Bao was “an unmitigated disaster for the prosecution. To end with Dr. Bao, it couldn’t be worse.”

Kobilinsky dismissed Bao as “amateurish” and said the medical examiner lost credibility with every cross-examination question.

Steve Raiser, a criminal defense attorney, told Fox News Channel that Bao’s testimony was “quite frankly terrible” because Bao couldn’t remember Trayvon Martin’s autopsy. But Raiser noted that Bao’s testimony that the bullet went straight through Trayvon’s heart undermined the defense argument there was a struggle for the weapon.

Orlando attorney Mark NeJame, a legal analyst for CNN, said the state ran “a beautiful, organized trial as it relates to telling a story,” but with Bao “it all unraveled.”

CNN’s Jean Casarez said she had never seen anything like Bao’s testimony in a courtroom.

WOFL-Channel 35 legal analyst Diana Tennis seconded that view. “He was off the charts,” she told Keith Landry on “Orlando Matters.” “This guy really cost the state a lot. To be the last witness — just not good.” Tennis was astonished that Bao didn’t understand court protocol and looked biased in favor of the state.

---------- Post added at 09:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------



He did though.
BOTH medical examiners for the state and the defense said that his injuries were consistent with that happening.
Go look at what the witnesses testified to.

Well actually this medical examiner's name appears to be Valerie Rao? So....I'm not sure how to respond to you attacking this Bao character since I'm not even referring to him/her.

[Smookie]

Well, that's your own problem then, which I won't debate or else we'll get off topic.



Can you provide a source for any of this? I've been digging through videos but couldn't find relevance to your point. I'd appreciate it if you could help me out here.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Watch the whole thing!

---------- Post added at 09:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------


Well actually this medical examiner's name appears to be Valerie Rao? So....I'm not sure how to respond to you attacking this Bao character since I'm not even referring to him/her.

There was Valerie Rao and Shiping Bao.

[Raj]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Watch the whole thing!

I can't be bothered to watch 2 hours worth of a trial to find one detail. Can you tell me what time they talk about it?

[Scaletta01]

Eh, to each his own. I'm out.

I hope there were no hard feelings :/

[Smookie]

I can't be bothered to watch 2 hours worth of a trial to find one detail. Can you tell me what time they talk about it?

And I can't be bothered to debate someone who is uninformed.
You talk about this "injustice" when you actually do not know facts.

[munsterpoo]

This trial does not deserve NEAR the attention it has received.

As has been mentioned before, this was a simple self-defense case. Sometimes life isn't black and white, this is one of those cases. It's not right that someone is dead, it's not right that Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher and pursued Trayvon, but this happens DAILY. The only reason this is news is because it isn't news, and that means that the media has spent millions of dollars worth of airtime covering a non event, so this story continues to go on, now they're talking about riots, etc to keep the ball rolling. More airtime on this = more money.

This is just what happens when you have national media that is starving for ratings and credibility. How many actual murders have occurred since this case happened? What about the suicide rates of veterans, and the other thousands of real issues this country has that no one knows about If you remove yourself from all knowledge of this event and compare it to other murder trials, this one seems absurd. So why is everyone still talking about it? The media - constantly grasping at straws and issuing BREAKING NEWS because that's what their brand is. It's sad that someones dead and it could've been avoided, but that's life. Sometimes people forget we don't live in a perfect world, some things happen that we can't explain. Spending 6 months reading more into this story won't do anything but result in a prosecution by the media, which is what we have, and is a terrifying thing.

[Raj]

And I can't be bothered to debate someone who is uninformed.
You talk about this "injustice" when you actually do not know facts.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't know all the facts and I've been basing my arguments on the articles I read and what I've heard on the news and what other people on this thread have said. No one except you believes that Martin was vigorously bashing Zimmerman's head into the concrete for 45 seconds. Any logical person will tell you that if that were the case, then Zimmerman would have come out with far more injuries than that, or maybe he might not have come out at all. And am I representing Martin as an angel? No, I am not. Are you attempting to represent Zimmerman as one? Yes, you are. Am I saying there was an injustice against Martin? No, he did something wrong, which I acknowledge. But Zimmerman did wrong things too, whether it be self-defense or not. He still killed someone who is not an adult. Let me repeat that - he KILLED someone. I don't believe Martin was innocent; because he wasn't, by any means. But you shouldn't try to make Zimmerman out to be acting fully in self-defense. Malicious intent is everywhere, especially after the types of calls Zimmerman has made to 911 in the past ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). I don't believe Zimmerman is this innocent, fully helpless grown man you are portraying him to be.

[Allegra]

This trial does not deserve NEAR the attention it has received.

As has been mentioned before, this was a simple self-defense case. Sometimes life isn't black and white, this is one of those cases. It's not right that someone is dead, it's not right that Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher and pursued Trayvon, but this happens DAILY. The only reason this is news is because it isn't news, and that means that the media has spent millions of dollars worth of airtime covering a non event, so this story continues to go on, now they're talking about riots, etc to keep the ball rolling. More airtime on this = more money.

This is just what happens when you have national media that is starving for ratings and credibility. How many actual murders have occurred since this case happened? What about the suicide rates of veterans, and the other thousands of real issues this country has that no one knows about If you remove yourself from all knowledge of this event and compare it to other murder trials, this one seems absurd. So why is everyone still talking about it? The media - constantly grasping at straws and issuing BREAKING NEWS because that's what their brand is. It's sad that someones dead and it could've been avoided, but that's life. Sometimes people forget we don't live in a perfect world, some things happen that we can't explain. Spending 6 months reading more into this story won't do anything but result in a prosecution by the media, which is what we have, and is a terrifying thing.

That was really well said. Absolutely agree.

[Scaletta01]

This trial does not deserve NEAR the attention it has received.

As has been mentioned before, this was a simple self-defense case. Sometimes life isn't black and white, this is one of those cases. It's not right that someone is dead, it's not right that Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher and pursued Trayvon, but this happens DAILY. The only reason this is news is because it isn't news, and that means that the media has spent millions of dollars worth of airtime covering a non event, so this story continues to go on, now they're talking about riots, etc to keep the ball rolling. More airtime on this = more money.

This is just what happens when you have national media that is starving for ratings and credibility. How many actual murders have occurred since this case happened? What about the suicide rates of veterans, and the other thousands of real issues this country has that no one knows about If you remove yourself from all knowledge of this event and compare it to other murder trials, this one seems absurd. So why is everyone still talking about it? The media - constantly grasping at straws and issuing BREAKING NEWS because that's what their brand is. It's sad that someones dead and it could've been avoided, but that's life. Sometimes people forget we don't live in a perfect world, some things happen that we can't explain. Spending 6 months reading more into this story won't do anything but result in a prosecution by the media, which is what we have, and is a terrifying thing.

Pretty much the most intelligent bit of writing I've read in this thread.

[munsterpoo]

Scarletta01 Peta

Thanks for the rep and words guys - almost didn't post anything because I'm so tired of hearing about it.


If you're interested this is worth reading relevant to the whole news reporting side of this

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Smookie]

I'm not gonna lie, I don't know all the facts and I've been basing my arguments on the articles I read and what I've heard on the news and what other people on this thread have said. No one except you believes that Martin was vigorously bashing Zimmerman's head into the concrete for 45 seconds. Any logical person will tell you that if that were the case, then Zimmerman would have come out with far more injuries than that, or maybe he might not have come out at all. And am I representing Martin as an angel? No, I am not. Are you attempting to represent Zimmerman as one? Yes, you are. Am I saying there was an injustice against Martin? No, he did something wrong, which I acknowledge. But Zimmerman did wrong things too, whether it be self-defense or not. He still killed someone who is not an adult. Let me repeat that - he KILLED someone. I don't believe Martin was innocent; because he wasn't, by any means. But you shouldn't try to make Zimmerman out to be acting fully in self-defense. Malicious intent is everywhere, especially after the types of calls Zimmerman has made to 911 in the past ([Only registered and activated users can see links]). I don't believe Zimmerman is this innocent, fully helpless grown man you are portraying him to be.

So, killing someone is never justified?

[Raj]

So, killing someone is never justified?

It can be. But not in this case.

[Scaletta01]

It can be. But not in this case.

People react differently.

[Smookie]

It can be. But not in this case.

Why?
How is getting your head bashed into concrete again and again okay?
He screamed the word helped 14 times..

[Raj]

People react differently.

Well, that's not my problem. To be honest this case isn't even relevant to me, I'm just debating so I have something to do instead of mindlessly chatting.


Why?
How is getting your head bashed into concrete again and again okay?
He screamed the word helped 14 times..

Did I ever say it was?

[Scaletta01]

Well, that's not my problem. To be honest this case isn't even relevant to me, I'm just debating so I have something to do instead of mindlessly chatting.



Did I ever say it was?
Never anything wrong with mindless chatting.

[Raj]

Never anything wrong with mindless chatting.

Never anything wrong with debating, either. ;P

[Smookie]

Did I ever say it was?

So, if that happens, you shouldn't be in fear for your life?

[Allegra]

So, if that happens, you shouldn't be in fear for your life?

He's not saying it's okay or you shouldn't fear for your life, I just don't think he (or I for that matter) believes that was the case in this particular scenario.

[Raj]

He's not saying it's okay or you shouldn't fear for your life, I just don't think he (or I for that matter) believes that was the case in this particular scenario.

Thanks, haha I couldn't find the words for it.

[Scaletta01]

I'm scared to enter the debate, might get shot.

[Smookie]

He's not saying it's okay or you shouldn't fear for your life, I just don't think he (or I for that matter) believes that was the case in this particular scenario.

Then tell me what is okay for this particular scenario!

[grrrawr]

Lol how do you get your head bashed into concrete for 45 seconds and have nothing more than a few cuts

[Allegra]

Then tell me what is okay for this particular scenario!

Given I don't think he was in a life threatening situation, I believe he could have defended himself without killing Martin.
I think debating what he could have done etc any further just isn't going to go anywhere imo. Probably should agree to disagree.

[Smookie]

Lol how do you get your head bashed into concrete for 45 seconds and have nothing more than a few cuts

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so it isn't even worth responding to you.



Given I don't think he was in a life threatening situation, I believe he could have defended himself without killing Martin.
I think debating what he could have done etc any further just isn't going to go anywhere imo. Probably should agree to disagree.

So, what would be a life threatening situation?
So, you're telling me that Zimmerman should have realized, while getting his head smashed on the concrete:
Good golly!
You know, I shouldn't shoot this young man.
I should let him continue beating me!

[Allegra]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so it isn't even worth responding to you.




So, what would be a life threatening situation?
So, you're telling me that Zimmerman should have realized, while getting his head smashed on the concrete:
Good golly!
You know, I shouldn't shoot this young man.
I should let him continue beating me!

Honestly, can you stop acting so bloody condescending and arrogant to anyone who disagrees with you? Act like an intelligent and mature person and communicate your point without acting like a dick to other members.
As for your post to me, No I'm not telling you that, because I DO NOT BELIEVE that Zimmerman was getting his head bashed into the concrete in the first place. We are arguing based on different interpretations of the case.

[Smookie]

Honestly, can you stop acting so bloody condescending and arrogant to anyone who disagrees with you? Act like an intelligent and mature person and communicate your point without acting like a dick to other members.
As for your post to me, No I'm not telling you that, because I DO NOT BELIEVE that Zimmerman was getting his head bashed into the concrete in the first place. We are arguing based on different interpretations of the case.

So, how did he get a broken noise?
And the cuts on the back of his head?
Why was the blood pooling?

It's a debate, stop acting entitled.

[Scaletta01]

So, how did he get a broken noise?
And the cuts on the back of his head?
Why was the blood pooling?

It's a debate, stop acting entitled.
Just let it end, it's over. He can't go to jail for it now, nor is there anything else to prove.

[grrrawr]

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about so it isn't even worth responding to you.

I've read this whole thread and it's just you repeating yourself over and over and over again. You've been defense and condescending of every person that disagrees with you. Try acting a little more grown up in your "debates"



How has a mod not locked this yet?

Drizzy Bettser nayfeee I_royalty_I

[Raj]

grrrawr As soon as I get off this app I am fullrepping you for that.

[Spoof04]

you guys know the NAACP is pushing for a Civil Rights Suit, so some criminal charges may still be given if the Martins pursue it. If they do just a Civil Case in court they could get monetary funds to compensate, but if its a Civil Rights Suit, they can pursue criminal charges.

[I_royalty_I]

I don't really see any point in locking it yet: I did see a lot of posts however that sshould've deleted as spam.
Nothing wrong with a heated debate, this is why we have the debate section. I didn't see anybody attacking another mber, just people trying to explain what they think and why, and that's fine with me. I personally think it's interesting to read the viewpoints of other people. Sometimes I will read another viewpoint and it will make mme change up the way I see the issue.
Only problem right now is the spam, keep it clean guys. If you just post to say you agree, that's spam. You need to add something further to the debate.

[Dom~]

So basically I have come to the brilliant conclusion that the only reason Smookie is defending Zimmerdick so much is because well honestly you are just racist, and don't even try to make the whole argument that we don't know what racism is here is your little definition since you don't know its meaning- "racial prejudice or discrimination" You have made plenty of racist remarks during this debate, mainly the whole watermelon ice tea, that is what really set me off to post here. I do not care about this stupid trial but knock it off Smookie, Zimmerman is NOT INNOCENT. he followed Treyvon Martin out of pure racism. Which he had no right to do, and since when is stalking legal? Oh yeah that is right, it isn't. Everything that Zimmerman did was illegal. 45 seconds of his head being hit on the concrete? Purely ignorance to believe that, my head has been hit on the concrete once before and that happened in a split second, and I was done, He over-exaggerated what happened that day because he did not want to be charged for murder, he should have been, in no way should he have been found guilty. Right now you would have been freaking out if Zimmerman wasn't charged for murder if this was the kid that died
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

but since it was this kid that died
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Then you think it is perfectly okay to murder him, and it is unacceptable.

I am not targetting you Smookie, I just think you need to open your eyes, and realize this is the 21st Century. You cannot stalk someone because of their color! Even if Trayvon Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T, what was Zimmerman expecting to accomplish by ignoring law enforcements orders and then committing the crime of following him, YES SMOOKIE IT IS ILLEGAL TO FOLLOW SOMEONE!!! Its called stalking. and No it is not legal

[Bonkers]

This whole case was blown out of proportion and honestly I'm glad Zimmerman was found not guilty. Trayvon fucked with the wrong guy and answered for it.

[Smookie]

So basically I have come to the brilliant conclusion that the only reason Smookie is defending Zimmerdick so much is because well honestly you are just racist, and don't even try to make the whole argument that we don't know what racism is here is your little definition since you don't know its meaning- "racial prejudice or discrimination" You have made plenty of racist remarks during this debate, mainly the whole watermelon ice tea, that is what really set me off to post here. I do not care about this stupid trial but knock it off Smookie, Zimmerman is NOT INNOCENT. he followed Treyvon Martin out of pure racism. Which he had no right to do, and since when is stalking legal? Oh yeah that is right, it isn't. Everything that Zimmerman did was illegal. 45 seconds of his head being hit on the concrete? Purely ignorance to believe that, my head has been hit on the concrete once before and that happened in a split second, and I was done, He over-exaggerated what happened that day because he did not want to be charged for murder, he should have been, in no way should he have been found guilty. Right now you would have been freaking out if Zimmerman wasn't charged for murder if this was the kid that died
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

but since it was this kid that died
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Then you think it is perfectly okay to murder him, and it is unacceptable.

I am not targetting you Smookie, I just think you need to open your eyes, and realize this is the 21st Century. You cannot stalk someone because of their color! Even if Trayvon Martin didn't jump Zimmerman, EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T, what was Zimmerman expecting to accomplish by ignoring law enforcements orders and then committing the crime of following him, YES SMOOKIE IT IS ILLEGAL TO FOLLOW SOMEONE!!! Its called stalking. and No it is not legal

wait what

You're the type of person that makes this a race thing.
This was NEVER a race thing.
You, the media, and a few other bleeding hearts demand that the media plays it up as a race thing.

"Which he had no right to do, and since when is stalking legal?"

This statement is 100% incorrect.
He was 100% justified in what he did, following someone is NOT illegal.

You should go educate yourself!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Scaletta01]

It is a race thing, or no one else would care about it.

[Smookie]

It is a race thing, or no one else would care about it.

That's the thing, it was MADE into one.

The police correctly stated it was self defense.

It wasn't until the Martin family trademarked Trayvon's name and made over one million dollars that they decided to go on every show and talk about it.

The media escalated it into a race thing.
Zimmerman could easily sue NBC/CNN.
Those programs quoted him saying "Fucking coons," which never happened.

[cloudxcrash]

If Trayvon were the aggressor and Zimmerman were trying to defend himself, wouldn't Trayvon have some marks on himself? Scartch marks from Zimmerman fighting him off? Or hair, DNA, bruises... anything? As far as I know the only mark on Trayvon was a gun hole.

[Scaletta01]

No one would care if it was a white person getting shot, since we don't have a group for us. As soon as something like this happens, the NAACP and every black person jumps in.

Not being racist, it's just the truth.

[Spoof04]

Well wouldn't Zimmerman himself fall into the NAACP since he's Peruvian? Or is the 'CP' (colored people) in NAACP Black exclusive?

[Scaletta01]

Well wouldn't Zimmerman himself fall into the NAACP since he's Peruvian? Or is the 'CP' (colored people) in NAACP Black exclusive?

Black exclusive I think.

[I_royalty_I]

My whole thing with the race this, gender that..
There is a black man as the President of the United States.
There is/was a female as Secretary of State of the United States.
Those are arguably the two most important people in the ENTIRE world.
If they can get there, all this race war bullshit, and NAACP is a load of nonsense to me.

How about this affirmative action that is keeping better qualified people out of school or work and making them look elsewhere?
There was some interesting legislation passed recently by the supreme court about this.. but I doubt anybody has heard anything about this.

The media is a corrupt group run by a corrupt few.
Obama himself hold special meetings for only those news sources that will push his agenda, there was a story about this just the other day. They pushed this story for money like somebody said earlier. I know it sounds terrible to say that it's "just another murder trial", but it really and truly is, that's the cold hard truth for ya.

So in the whole scheme of things, this Zimmerman/Martin thing doesn't matter much. There is no reason for there to be these mass riots and all this other bullshit. If it were a white kid who was shot, and a black got who shot him, I would say the exact same thing. I'm honestly just so tired of this apparent racism in this country. I feel like the force that be almost want it to continue though. I know growing up in high school all I read was books about racism and slavery which pushed a predisposition mindset that racism and slavery were around and we should think a certain way.

I just wish people could get over themselves and see the bigger picture now a days.

[Smookie]

If Trayvon were the aggressor and Zimmerman were trying to defend himself, wouldn't Trayvon have some marks on himself? Scartch marks from Zimmerman fighting him off? Or hair, DNA, bruises... anything? As far as I know the only mark on Trayvon was a gun hole.

It was raining and when you are getting straddled, it's pretty difficult!

[Jolz]

Who the flying jizz shaft is Zimmerman and what did he do?

[Dom~]

wait what

You're the type of person that makes this a race thing.
This was NEVER a race thing.
You, the media, and a few other bleeding hearts demand that the media plays it up as a race thing.

"Which he had no right to do, and since when is stalking legal?"

This statement is 100% incorrect.
He was 100% justified in what he did, following someone is NOT illegal.

You should go educate yourself!
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

You do not know how to read very good do you? Since that website is to hard for you to understand that it says stalking is a criminal charge here is ANOTHER site that states Stalking is illegal and its even narrowed down to just Florida, but it talks about all 50 states, here you go, educate yourself since you obviously do not know what you are talking about. And stop saying this isn't a race thing because it is, like I said if it was a white kid and Zimmerman got away with it, you would be freaking out right now.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Smookie]

That's where you are wrong..
He didn't STALK..
He followed.
Zimmerman broke NO laws.
Trayvon did.

[Skol]

you guys know the NAACP is pushing for a Civil Rights Suit, so some criminal charges may still be given if the Martins pursue it. If they do just a Civil Case in court they could get monetary funds to compensate, but if its a Civil Rights Suit, they can pursue criminal charges.

Not going to get into the original debate, I have a strong opinion and most other people have one of their own so I don't see a point in creating any more stress. There is no way a civil rights suit will even be entertained, nor for that matter a federal hate-crime charge that many worked-up individuals are calling for (at least, if there isn't just one sane person). Zimmerman had a black girlfriend and worked with/had several black friends, with no history of racism. It's absurd to charge it that way, and if it goes to court I'm sure many will demand that the rule be applied to every single case where the involved parties were of a different ethnicity or race.

No comment on the rest, hope people can learn to move on regardless of whether they found the verdict a triumph or victory. Besides, we have the Aaron Hernandez case to look forward to!

[Jolz]

I just looked this up and never even realised.

I was paid to design a t-shirt for some of the Trayvon Martin marches lol

[Skol]

I just looked this up and never even realised.

I was paid to design a t-shirt for some of the Trayvon Martin marches lol

Gotta love the profit off movements lol, not saying this does or does not apply to you, but I'm sure there were many who made quite a payday off the event.

By the way, the Sweaterman Cosby said that in his opinion, the case was more about guns than race. Interesting POV.

[Jolz]

Gotta love the profit off movements lol, not saying this does or does not apply to you, but I'm sure there were many who made quite a payday off the event.

By the way, the Sweaterman Cosby said that in his opinion, the case was more about guns than race. Interesting POV.

I received an email asking for a t shirt design and they gave me a pic and told me what they wanted... Didn't really pay attention to what it was all about till they paid me :)

Here it is... took a while to find it lol


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dom~]

That's where you are wrong..
He didn't STALK..
He followed.
Zimmerman broke NO laws.
Trayvon did.

Yes he did smookie are you okay? Stop being so quick to defend this monster!

"Resentful stalkers pursue a vendetta because of a sense of grievance against the victims – motivated mainly by the desire to frighten and distress the victim."

This is exactly what happened! Zimmerman pursued him because Trayvon is black

[Savant]

I have given up on this foolish debate. Obviously Smookie is still talking about the same thing. 45 seconds of head to concrete action. I have told him time and time again that is not what happen. He knows in the back of his mind its not what happen that is why it is one of his only reasons he can state to justify shooting Trayvon. He didn't get his head smashed for 45 fucking seconds so will you drop it?

On a side note... (which I more than likely won't respond to your answer anyway) if he shot him from the bottom how is there witness statements seeing ZIMMERMAN straddled over the top of Trayvon after the shot was fired? Also the pictures of Zimmerman taken RIGHT after it happened... there is no massive collection of blood anywhere on Zimmerman. The blood wouldn't have floated away. It would have poured outta Trayvons chest. Zimmerman is fucking guilty and ck as my witness if he ever comes to Jackson TN I will make that punk ass bitch admit it to yall.

[Smookie]

Yes he did smookie are you okay? Stop being so quick to defend this monster!

"Resentful stalkers pursue a vendetta because of a sense of grievance against the victims – motivated mainly by the desire to frighten and distress the victim."

This is exactly what happened! Zimmerman pursued him because Trayvon is black

lol
You're making it about race when it never was.

Zimmerman used to have a BLACK girlfriend.
Zimmerman had PLENTY of BLACK friends.
Zimmerman had a professor in college who was black in where the professor stated "He was one of my BEST students"

How can he POSSIBLY be racist?

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------


I have given up on this foolish debate. Obviously Smookie is still talking about the same thing. 45 seconds of head to concrete action. I have told him time and time again that is not what happen. He knows in the back of his mind its not what happen that is why it is one of his only reasons he can state to justify shooting Trayvon. He didn't get his head smashed for 45 fucking seconds so will you drop it?

On a side note... (which I more than likely won't respond to your answer anyway) if he shot him from the bottom how is there witness statements seeing ZIMMERMAN straddled over the top of Trayvon after the shot was fired? Also the pictures of Zimmerman taken RIGHT after it happened... there is no massive collection of blood anywhere on Zimmerman. The blood wouldn't have floated away. It would have poured outta Trayvons chest. Zimmerman is fucking guilty and ck as my witness if he ever comes to Jackson TN I will make that punk ass bitch admit it to yall.

"One of my only reasons"
I hope that one day you will experience a situation where the use of deadly action is necessary.
And when you do use that deadly force, you'll finally understand.

So, it's justified to go and jump people and smash their heads into the concrete?

It's a shame you think the way you do..
"You'll make him admit it"

[j03]

Smookie pretty much all of the claims you have said are not even backed up with proven evidence. This thread was pretty funny, actually.