Romney V.S Obama!

[backinblack]

Lets debate who will be a better president! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! !
I think romney will put this economy way more in the crapper than it already is!
LEts debate (:

[Scott]

Neither. We're screwed.

But if I had to pick one I'd say Romney, because even though they're both horrible, at least there's a CHANCE that Romney will do something good.


I think romney will put this economy way more in the crapper than it already is!

Maybe you're right, but you know, Obama has spent more than any president in the history of the United States.

[Riku]

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[Dom~]

Obama all the way, Romney's choice for VP wants to end funds for planned parenthood, and wants to illegalize some forms of birth control, He also wants to elimate a womans right to choose, which is beyond belief someone could think of such a thing would be allowed, I will honestly move countries if he becomes president

#Obama2012

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They Look like Nazi's which is honestly the way they think is the correct way to go, which is absolutely horrible, I refuse to go back

[Riku]

Not surprised you'd vote for Romney, Ronith. Not at all.

[Riku]

Really?

What exactly did Obama do for the USA?

Oh man I LOVE this question.

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[maxxine]

Suck on that Ronith

I am loving your debate skills

[Dom~]

Thanks Milly

[Riku]

Here is what Obama fucked up:

What jobs did he create? How many factories in the USA have closed down under Obama. Nothing is being made in the USA anymore. And it very reapidly becoming a stage 4 production country. There is no incentive to create a factory in the USA with such insane regulations...

When he fucked up GM and Chrysler, over 200k+ jobs vanished.

Obama on the first 90 days of presidency, which has been traditional the most important days of a presidential candidacy did nothing. Obama caused the country to go into greater debt, and lowered the rating from AAA to AA. Good Job.

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You realize Obama inherited the greatest economic mess since the Great Depression, right? You can't fucking fix that in 4 years, especially not with Republicans pulling a filibuster on just about every attempt to make changes.

[Riku]

Really? Where are these jobs? Are these service or manufacturing jobs? There is a difference as you know. When was the last time you purchased something that was "Made in USA." Do you have a job working for a company in the service or manufacturing industry? How many local businesses near you closed down?

I don't get it. Do you expect me to have a list of every single job created? It's mixed service and manufacturing.

Last time I purchased something "Made in the USA"? Yesterday.

I'm in the service industry.

How many local businesses closed? In the last four years: one.


When Obama plans on increasing taxes even more to the rich, it goes both ways. More companies are out sourcing because it is cheaper to manufacturer, or buy raw material outside the USA. Not only that, but Obama is approving ridiculous regulations that are hurting YOU the consumer.

Outsourcing keeps companies stuck between a rock and a hard place. That works both ways too.

Please cite these "ridiculous regulations".


When was the last time you saw gas prices down? Do you know why gas isn't cheap anymore? Its because your lovely goverment is shutting down refineries and preventing new ones from being opened.

Last week we dropped 30 cents.

Let's put "anymore" in relative terms. Do you mean the last few months? Well that's because the summer months are when oil refineries make their repairs and do routine maintenance. They can't do it in the winter.

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[Riku]

Show me new companies that were created in the last four years that are manufacturing companies.

And then compare it to the number of service companies created.

Worst of all, the USA did not build a new fuel refinery in the United States in over 30 years. Many oil companies have tried yet it is virtually impossible to obtain all of the permits necessary to build one as environmental groups sue time and time again to stop construction and left wing Liberal Democrat appointed judges grant these environmental wackos endless impact studies that stop construction. The USA permanently closed down about one third of the refineries that existed 30 years ago however because governmental regulatory requirements have made it impossible to keep them operating profitably. Our current refineries are operating at very close to their maximum capacity. But this is not sufficient as we now need to import 14% of our refined gasoline. The United States of America, the greatest economic power on earth, is incapable of refining its own gasoline supply because we have willingly crippled ourselves with suicidal environmental restrictions. Shipping crude oil is relatively safe as it is fairly inert and not very combustible. Shipping refined gasoline is tricky and dangerous as it gives off explosive fumes and is extremely flammable. We are playing national Russian roulette with our own energy security. We have very little room for error and with our expanding population and economy we are nearing a crisis point. As 20% of our refining capacity has been eliminated through shutdowns and start ups required by continual blend changes, refinery capacity is the bottleneck. Until the United States deals with this issue, and it is not going to deal with it, our gasoline supply will remain restricted and prices will remain high regardless of the price of oil. Since Obama's innarguation, the prices have shot up the last four years.

But hey, that is not all what Obama did...

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Sad, huh?

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[Riku]

I like how you ignored the last part of my post.

Fact number one, current oil company profits on a gallon of gas at three dollars per gallon are currently 9% or about $.27 per gallon. Of that $.27, approximately 40% is taken by the government in taxes before the remaining 60% is distributed to shareholders. Thus the after-tax profit distributed to the tens of millions of Americans who own oil company stocks is about $.16 per gallon. There are no greedy oil company owners colluding with one another to gouge American citizens, only shareholders like you and me, and our investment portfolios. The largest American oil company is Exxon Mobil; they are the fifth largest oil company in the world and control less than 5% of the world oil market. The top three US oil companies combined control less than 10% of the world oil market. This is hardly a market dominating monopoly.

Let me add that every single time a refinery needs to change from one blend to another, that refinery needs to be shut down in order for the change to take effect. These constant shutdowns and start ups are eliminating as much as 20% of the capacity of each refinery and adding enormously to the cost of operating that facility. These blend requirements are adding $.50 to $.75 to the cost of each gallon of gasoline that we purchase. In addition to this, taxes at both the federal, state, and local levels totaled nearly $.60 per gallon. After-tax profits to shareholders of oil companies on the sale of a $3 gallon of gasoline will total about $.16. Even if oil companies eliminated 100% of their before tax profit that would only amount to $.27 per gallon. Oh, let me mention that the oil companies have to do 100% of the work to find, transport, refine, and deliver our fuel supply. Our government on the other hand, does none of the work, yet gouges American citizens to the tune of approximately $.60 cents per gallon in direct taxes, plus income tax of approximately $.11 per gallon on distributed oil company profits, plus between $.50 and $.75 per gallon in mandated regulatory costs. Clearly there is some gouging going on by local and state governments that rip our heads off to the tune of over one dollar per gallon! These same economic nitwits tell us that the .16 cent after-tax profit on the Exxon Mobil stock in your IRA is unconscionable!!The laws of economics are as certain as the law of gravity. This economic illiteracy combined with the misinformation spewed at us daily by our left wing agenda driven mainstream press has public anger directed at the wrong culprit.

Wait.

But where does 100% of the blame for this fall on Obama if this has been going on for quite a long time? I'm failing to see the correlation here.

[Riku]

Obama has yet to stop all the different blends being created. This is causing the additional prices in gas. He can fix that..

You still failed to address the last part of my previous post.

I'll refresh your memory for you.

You act like the Republican party wouldn't do the same exact thing.

[Riku]

But Obama did it. That is the big deal.

Do you realize how many jobs has been lost because of his auto task force?

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That is just Chrysler dealers.

Take the time and watch this clip. Its eye-opening.


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I have a feeling you wont though.... :/

Don't have the attention span to watch that right now. I will tomorrow though. Promise.

But okay, 41000 jobs. He's still added over 500,000 manufacturing jobs since 2010.

[Azn]

I was going to argue... but it's pretty clear at this point that Romney won't be president. Picking Ryan as his VP put the nail in the coffin.

[deathwish42]

honestly if it was my choice i would vote for Ron Paul that crazy old man could do some good for this country lol

[Sci_Girl]

I am confused, do people actually believe that politicians do things for the people because they say they will? That they do not lie to get elected? That they will actually make a "difference" in 4 years? There are flaws with anyone elected plain and simple.

[Caleb]

Ronith makes some really good points. Imo Obama has literally done nothing except put us deeper into this hell hole we call the united States :P I'm up for at least giving Romney a chance

[Evelsaint]

Staying with Obama, I rather not vote in a new president who might turn out like Bush v2.0. in this economy.

Obama inherited America when it was in recession and I feel he turned it around pretty well given the circumstances. Could he have done better? Maybe? Things he could have addressed? Yeah but solutions aren't implemented overnight.

He's not the god of the universe and he can't do everything and solve all the problems, gas price etc etc. That's just bullshit.

He didn't make us fall deeper in the recession, I call that a win.

[Riku]

Ronith makes some really good points. Imo Obama has literally done nothing except put us deeper into this hell hole we call the united States :P I'm up for at least giving Romney a chance

You realize Obama has completely turned the economy around, right...?

[Caleb]

You got to be kidding me -_-

[Riku]

You got to be kidding me -_-

A+ rebuttal.

[Caleb]

He really has not put us anywhere. We're in the same place before his election :P absolutely pointless presidency imo

[Riku]

He really has not put us anywhere. We're in the same place before his election :P absolutely pointless presidency imo

First of all, he isn't a miracle worker; four years is a very short amount of time. Anyone who has taken Macroeconomics can tell you that.

And second of all, what figures are you looking at?!

[Caleb]

WHY DID I GET INTO THIS CONVERSATION :( IM JUST A BOY!! AHHHHHHHHHHH

[NoUser]

Romney. I'm tired of Obama fucking up this country.

[Carrot]

Romney. I'm tired of Obama fucking up this country.

That's funny because Bush fucked up the country and Obama already fixed many of his problems.

[Carrot]

Oh really?!

Obama is ignoring laws and he is giving deferred action to illegals.

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Sickening. And yet people will still vote for him. Just remember this when you people are looking for a job or lose yours. I have no sympathy for you if you vote for Obama and cannot find a job or lose yours. But then again, with Obama you know he wants you to rely on the Government.

Romney says he wants to give jobs to Americans, yet while in his current position he took jobs away from Americans and gave them to India and China.

[Frank12]

Obama supporters on this board - Where in the hell are you getting your numbers? Anyone who knows anything about this current economy knows that we are in a worse state than we were before. The unemployment rate has risen 3.2%, private sector jobs have decreased from 115.6 M to 111 M, and although they are on the rise that is merely a product of the sharp dip they had when Obama became president. The median home value is the same as it was in 2008, actually on a decline. Disposable income is down, and Poverty rate is up, and the FEDERAL DEFICIT and PUBLIC DEBT have more than doubled since Obama took office.

If you would like facts, please stop posting biased websites that just say something. Go to .gov sites and look at the information.

In all honesty Riku, I would consider myself a moderate Republican. The only reason moderate is there is because I believe earthquakes happen because of tectonic shifting of plates and not gay marriage. I support the ability to marry of Gay and Straight couples. However, I feel that you and alot of other people have been reading the wrong things about Romney. He doesn't want to take away your rights in the way Obama campaign ads have portrayed it.

"He [Romney] is a clear opponent of gay marriage, and does not seem to favor civil unions if they afford all the same benefits as marriage. But he is on record as supporting domestic partnerships, with specific rights determined individually by states. The Obama campaign interprets this as Romney saying states would be allowed to deny gay couples the right to adopt. But when he has articulated his position, he has often mentioned adoption as one of the rights states could grant. And this year, Romney called adoption by same-sex couples "something which people have the right to do." - PolitiFact

Im just posting this to get some stuff out there now. More will be posted as I write it. Feel free to dispute, but it will be ignored unless you find me something credible eg not a blog.

[Sci_Girl]

If Romney is elected does that mean he will fix everything that is a problem right now? Just a question

[Frank12]

I do hope you all know that the US and Europe is fucked so hard right now. You know the European Debt Crisis? Wanna see what happens when we throw in the US and Japan (who will probably collapse before us imo)

Based on an equation of a Capital Management Fund in Dallas, a manager defined "When Debt becomes a BIG problem" as when

Government debt + Banking System > 5 x Government Revenue

As of early 2012, Greece was at 8.5x, Italy at 7.5x, and Spain at 11x.

Japan is at 37x and the US is 16x. The reason other countries, such as Germany (who has 9x) are not as affected as say, Italy, is because their economy is much stronger.

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That is a picture of the US's current account. For those who don't know how to read a current account, essentially if the bars are positive foreign money is flowing in to your economy, while negative means more of your money is leaving than foreign money is entering.

US's is worse than Italy's

By the way, when dealing with the economy and government, since it is now alot of speculation controlling the economy, governments will LIE or AVOID answering questions. If Japan will devalue and they know that they will, they will not say they are until they actually do. So any info given via government officials is pretty much bullshit unless said otherwise (eg backed by facts) (Mexico did this is 94, said they would not default or devalue and did the next day.)

So im more concerned with who will fix our economy. And since Obama's administration is negligent of the gigantic problem that is happening with the rising Debt, I like Romney.

Notice this. Although I am considering myself a Republican, I base my opinions off of data and pick who I like off of that. I do not base off party affiliation and then find facts to support it. I think Obama can do good, but not in the situation right now. Right now, we need to be focusing mostly on the economic problems. As much as some of you disagree, Abortion, Gay rights, Racial situations mean less to me than economics. I think more money needs to flow, we need to fix the debt first. Without that, we can't fix any other problems, it just goes back to the debt issue. Once that is solved, more money needs to flow into the middle class. Stop blaming the rich for your problems. Some are greedy, but some are not. Its uneducated Americans who allowed the 2008 economic crisis to happen!! I said when I was 13 that it was a problem. Everyone ignored it. ITS COMMON SENSE THAT YOU CANNOT KEEP BUYING THINGS AND BUILDING UP DEBT. We are doing what happened in 2008 individually now in 2012+ with the US DEBT!!! We are borrowing more than we can handle...

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If Romney is elected does that mean he will fix everything that is a problem right now? Just a question

No one can fix every single problem right now. This campaign is not for who will fix America, its who will do the best job starting to fix America. Unless you want a total dictatorship, the US will still be a problem in 4 years. I just want it to be less of a problem then than it is now.

Obama has honestly become a target for Republicans, yet he cannot make everything better right away. No one can. The only thing I can say is he needs a better staff if he wants to solve issues. I was not impressed with his last 4 years. His people associated with and in control of the Financial Dept are the problem, and he needs to find better ones.

[Sci_Girl]

I am glad I am Canadian, I cannot put a vote into this mess.

[Jose]

Honestly, idk who would.
All the presidents benefit in some way.
Most make good decisions, but also negative shit happens while doing the better deed.

[derpherpherp]

[/COLOR]And are you shitting me...


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This one is out of context. He means that government-funded infrastructure (roads, bridges, utilities) and work of others has helped create thriving businesses. Not that people who own businesses didn't do any work themselves.

I have to admit I'm primarily pro-Obama because of his stance on social issues - neither are incredibly strong candidates for fixing the economy. However, I don't feel Romney would be a better choice of the two. Tax cuts and decreased government spending in some areas while increasing the military budget are not going to be a good thing either.

With the government's debt where it is, a continuation of Reaganomics is not going to be helpful at all. Continuing the trend of deregulation will not create more jobs in America. All major corporations move their jobs outside of this country to reduce costs and that trend will not stop under Romney.
[Only registered and activated users can see links] from a domestic policy advisor under the Reagan administration.

Our annual military expenses are absolutely insane. If our military's strength has been on the decline, I'm not seeing evidence of it. Most of our spending and job creation from an increased military budget would be oversea with helping to repair the mess we've made in the Middle East since Bush. Many of our drones, fighter planes, and other weaponry are also developed overseas (Germany, Russia, China, Belgium). If you think most of what we develop is American-designed, you're kidding yourself. And what is designed by us is largely a result of NASA engineers' work, which is minimalized by the GOP. Romney berates Obama for his position on NASA, but picks a VP more vehemently against them and does plan to slash their budget by at least 5% - his vocalized stance is vague.

Romney was quoted as saying he would choose to use money saved by cuts in the EPA and other such departments on the military over social issues on the basis of ensuring we have the strongest military in the world. Our defense spending as well as the nuclear warhead count compared to similarly wealthy nations should be enough to tell you we're hardly having problems there. If we want to focus on 'fixing the problems at home,' we shouldn't be looking at bulking up a sector that's been primarily used for international affairs.

[Azn]

If anybody can justify higher tax cuts for the rich, sure I'll vote for Romney.
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Before anyone asks, yes, Romney is in favor of Ryan's plans.

[jojo]

Romney says he wants to give jobs to Americans, yet while in his current position he took jobs away from Americans and gave them to India and China.

Your ignorance makes me laugh....

[ciclame]

Honestly I think obama is going to win :(

What many people don't see is as Americans it is the companies rights to send jobs out of the country !
Obama is creating a false economy and once his funds for his stimulus programs run out we are all going to feel it !

Romney is a business man and knows what he is doing .

If obama gets reelected he will be known as the president responsible for the decline of the USA

[John]

Keep to debating instead of criticizing others yada yada. But I really have enjoyed this thread so far. the best debate to date IMO keep it up homies.

[Azn]

[QUOTE=Ronith;208816]I'll take a stab at this.

First of, they are not talking about cutting taxes. Ryan's plan simply doesn't agree with the President's tax increases. What they are proposing is to keep the tax rates the same as it is now. However, Ryan's plan proposes the elimination of deductions and loopholes. Which are obviously enjoyed by wealthy people so they can lower their tax rates. From my understand is that they are taking a page out of the Fiscal Commission; the President

[Chi]

Could you clear something up -

Often you argue that Obama is sending "American" jobs overseas to China, India and Africa....

It isn't Obama, or any president/prime minister/dictator who sends a job anyway. Its an organisations decision after analysing (in simple terms) pros and cons. They do it clearly to maximise profits. Why aren't you angry at them? If any leader were try and restrict one organisation in its global ventures then it's quite possible that the organisation will move entirely to another part of the globe ;/

[Tom]

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[maxxine]

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did u get this off my blog omg

[Tom]

did u get this off my blog omg

yeah I was lurking a week ago and saw this lmao

[derpherpherp]

+ the text that goes along w/ that post on tumblr

pepsie:

notafraidofruins:

heaven-and-helvetica:

prepare for trouble

and make it double

to protect the world from gay population

to unite rich people within our nation

romney

ryan.

TEAM WHITE BREAD BLAST OFF AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT
SURRENDER NOW AND LOSE YOUR RIGHTS

[Kentngo]

I typically vote based on which kind of person will leave the internet alone, promote it or restrict it.

It's typical for a liberal candidate to be funded and backed by Hollywood. Hollywood's anti-piracy campaign is sweeping in its censorship, giving them too much power to make mistakes with. When liberals make it into office, they are typically alligned with the democratic party.

At this point, I wanted to vote for Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney's stance on the internet is the Republican stance that's not affected by conservative beliefs, such as Rick Santorum's policy to remove pornography from the internet. However, Obama has recently proven himself not in the pocket of Hollywood, despite being a liberal democrat. On the other hand, Mitt Romney recently alligned with Paul Ryan. A person who is untrustable. I do not know his position on internet freedom, but AT&T is supporting the Romney-Ryan partnership. AT&T is one of the main factors against Net Neutrality.

For this reason, I am voting for Obama in the coming election.

[winston_tiu]

In my opinion both candidates, and perhaps future candidates are political beast. It's all about who looks good in they eyes of the people. In these times perhaps we are drawn to these kind of people. I'd choose obama, less racial discrimination against other nation. LoL :))

[runbikesurf]

I'd say Romney won the debate but I thought both looked like absolute idiots. It also made me decide to vote 3rd party.

[april]

Definitely Obama, if Romney wins, I'm moving to Canada.

[redfeeniks]

Oh man I LOVE this question.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If Obama gets reelected I'm moving to USA :D

and definitely Obama, I mean that link there is enough to reelect him in my eyes, He has great foreign policies btw.. if I have to get to 'conspiracies' then honestly no president in the world ever did good.