Thought In Process: Human-like Neopet Autoplayer?

[Xanice]

Lol. I know this is probably controversial, and a TON more work than anyone could ever imagine. Recently I've started looking up the basics of python programming, in an attempt to learn how to code in that language. It's of course going to take a lot of time to learn python and even more time to create such a thing, but I was curious if anyone's ever thought of creating something like this. I'd rather not get in-depth on "how" to make it look like a real human, but the jist of it is the program would be able to sync to a real life clock and have an onslaught of customizeable settings to fit how you'd like it to play neo for you. Has anyone ever considered a go at this? Did you stop because it was too much work, it was out of your capability, or you simply could not figure out a design to make yourself look that human? (I can ;x) The player would essentially have daily do-ers, autoposters, autobuyers, auctionsnipers, etc etc etc all combined into one, doing them in a randomized or human processed order.

Thoughts and ideas?

[Zachafer]

Lol. I know this is probably controversial, and a TON more work than anyone could ever imagine. Recently I've started looking up the basics of python programming, in an attempt to learn how to code in that language. It's of course going to take a lot of time to learn python and even more time to create such a thing, but I was curious if anyone's ever thought of creating something like this. I'd rather not get in-depth on "how" to make it look like a real human, but the jist of it is the program would be able to sync to a real life clock and have an onslaught of customizeable settings to fit how you'd like it to play neo for you. Has anyone ever considered a go at this? Did you stop because it was too much work, it was out of your capability, or you simply could not figure out a design to make yourself look that human? (I can ;x)

Thoughts and ideas?

Would you mind privately sharing your ideas? I would love to help you put these ideas into code.

P.S. Is this the same Xanice from NC?

[Xanice]

Would you mind privately sharing your ideas? I would love to help you put these ideas into code.

P.S. Is this the same Xanice from NC?

This is the same Xanice since 5 years ago, from any possible other Neopet's related forum known (well where a Xanice exists).

And as it's a fairly large project i want to get some more background information about python to the point where i can aid in the project before sharing my specific ideas to anyone :) I have laid out a (personal) complete list of features and how to go about making it though :D

Edit: Though when I'm out of work, I wouldnt mind pming you ideas a little more in-depth haha! I was mostly looking for other ideas or any experience in gunning for such a huge project though 8)

[Zachafer]

It's a lot of work but it is definitely possible with modern day OOP. I would set it up so each class has a public validate() boolean which triggers the script running. So let's say you wanted to withdraw 50k from the bank when you had less than 10k on hand:
public class BankWithdraw extends ActiveScript implements Task {
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
public boolean validate() {
return user.getNP() < 10000;
}
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
public void run() {
bank.withdraw(50000);
log("Withdrew 50k from bank");
}
}

And then you could automate tasks like this, it's really a neat structure!

[Xanice]

Hmm that looks like an interesting component :)!

Yeah. I work crazy amount of hours this summer, (past that a normal person should be able to, for the next month it'll be coming along to 80 hour work weeks). But in my line of work sometimes there are just hours where there is nothing to do, so I want to pick up a book about python and start programming some of the components to gain experience with it. That does look interesting though. My thorough belief for this idea though is the number one human-feature is spontaneous action. Would a function like that be possible, using random modifiers? IE instead of it was less then 10000, if it was less then a range of (8000-25000) it would withdraw what it needed? Of course, timing on withdrawals would require to be impeccable as well. The number two part of this program would be consistancy.

Tickerboxes to disable particular features, would also be a niche idea. To put it simply, how can neo detect botting patterns when that behavioral pattern has an infinite number of options. Of course the options won't be infinite, but putting those options in the right place can make it impossible to determine between human and bot (especially through inconsistent play styles). That has been my biggest obstacle however. Thinking of a way where about 75% of the steps the bot will take can either be customized, activated, or deactivated. Due to lack of programming know-how so far, I haven't thought of an efficient way to enable such a feature which would be ground breaking to the program.

[Zachafer]

With random intervals:

public class BankWithdraw extends ActiveScript implements Task {
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
public boolean validate() {
return user.getNP() < random.nextInt(8000, 12000);
}
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
public void run() {
int amount = random.nextInt(45000, 55000);
if(bank.withdraw(amount))
log("Withdrew " + amount + " from bank");
else
log("Failed to withdraw " + amount + " from bank");
}
}Of course you could also add more conditions... I believe raredaredevil is wanting to work on a framework like this and I hope to make it super easy

[Xanice]

Haha, well I'd love to collaborate with people on this, but I'm afraid with the exception of ideas on how to implement this, my knowledge is subpar to that of any recognized programmers here :( Would feel close to useless on the project if that were the case! :X

Still, I appreciate the input on this though Zach! An opensource project like this though.. would be one hell of a grand collaboration

[Zachafer]

Haha, well I'd love to collaborate with people on this, but I'm afraid with the exception of ideas on how to implement this, my knowledge is subpar to that of any recognized programmers here :( Would feel close to useless on the project if that were the case! :X

I think you could really learn a lot programming wise if you were an active part of the project. I learned how to write programs before I learned how to program (if that makes any sense)

[Xanice]

Thanks for the input Zach. Like I said, I've got long work hours but... maybe I'll poke my head around and see who would be interested in a collaboration project of this magnitude. Going to also need to buy a hard copy of a book which teaches more fundamentals of python, because reading that shiz online won't do at work LOL. Slow hours = pick up a book, put it down when customers come in I guess. Doesn't work so well on the computer since its hard to pay attention to anything else LOL

[j03]

I made one of these a while back... it's basically a Neopets autoplayer that you tell it what to do (shop snipe, main shop AB, auctions, get avatars, dailies, etc.) but I just broke it down into multiple programs and released them that way.

I think with the resources from the .NET framework, it would be a lot more efficient to make this now though (especially with easier threading).

[Xanice]

I made one of these a while back... it's basically a Neopets autoplayer that you tell it what to do (shop snipe, main shop AB, auctions, get avatars, dailies, etc.) but I just broke it down into multiple programs and released them that way.

I think with the resources from the .NET framework, it would be a lot more efficient to make this now though (especially with easier threading).

Hmm. Well I don't have literal knowledge of any programming languages. However, I understand just about everything from how programs are structured, to how to go about creating them (I think, so long as I have a good idea of what parameters/ tools each language has to offer). Of course this will take me time to read up on alot, but I'm not knees deep into python yet. The .net framework is considered what language? VB or C+? Python just seemed one of the most effective languages so that was my original choice. Would you recommend I scrap that and read up more about .net framework then Joe? And yeah, the reason why I don't want to compile it into seperate programs is because by doing something like that, suddenly your actions from a spectator point of view become more sluggish and robotic. If it were all in a single program, on the other hand, it would be possible to program an AI resembling to that of a human playing almost entirely.

[j03]

Nah meant languages that use the .NET framework like VB.NET/C#.NET/C++.NET. These one's provide an easy GUI builder and assistance with coding, and a nice library of already made resources (.NET framework :P) for you to use.

I'm not recommending these over Python, but if you are new to programming then you might find it easier to just start with one of these.

[Xanice]

Nah meant languages that use the .NET framework like VB.NET/C#.NET/C++.NET. These one's provide an easy GUI builder and assistance with coding, and a nice library of already made resources (.NET framework :P) for you to use.

I'm not recommending these over Python, but if you are new to programming then you might find it easier to just start with one of these.

Ah okay! I was slightly misguided by what you meant by .net framework. And I'm not to concerned about the learning curve Joe :) While I'm not experienced in any languages, I have a pretty quick learning curve. I'm more concerned with how precise the program can be and which one will be faster, more efficient, and more flexible. As I said, if there's going to be an AI built that could fool a human eye to believing that it is 100% human, it's going to need a hell of a code to allow for randomization.

[Zachafer]

Ah okay! I was slightly misguided by what you meant by .net framework. And I'm not to concerned about the learning curve Joe :) While I'm not experienced in any languages, I have a pretty quick learning curve. I'm more concerned with how precise the program can be and which one will be faster, more efficient, and more flexible. As I said, if there's going to be an AI built that could fool a human eye to believing that it is 100% human, it's going to need a hell of a code to allow for randomization.

I'd highly recommend VB.NET to you as your first language. It's very very easy to understand and the syntax isn't a total bitch (has more leniency than C#/Java/Python but not to the point of bad programming practice). In my opinion, it would be the ideal language for this kind of project and I know you will definitely pick it up quickly. This has really sparked a lot of interest to me :D

Edit: On a further note, I am planning on writing something like this, where you basically assign tasks for the program to do and then it will do them :O

[Xanice]

Okay from a learning perspective, I more or less know VB. I've programmed macros and such in excel before :P I guess that's what I mean when I say i have a bit of a foundation and understand program structure, just don't have much experience with languages. If you think VB would be best for this application as well it's no trouble for me to pick up the pen and paper for VB again, I just figured VB at the cost of simplicity sacrificed flexibility.

And yeah Zach, it does sound like a fun project doesn't it? Programming a real "perfect" player, capable of getting up to the 'legit' hundred millionares, almost completely standalone. All the fun of playing neopets, without playing neopets! Well. With a sloppy release though it could be disastrous and create such high competition that life on neo would go bonkers haha

[Ryan~]

I think you could really learn a lot programming wise if you were an active part of the project. I learned how to write programs before I learned how to program (if that makes any sense)

Makes sense, as that is what I'm doing.

[Zachafer]

Okay from a learning perspective, I more or less know VB. I've programmed macros and such in excel before :P I guess that's what I mean when I say i have a bit of a foundation and understand program structure, just don't have much experience with languages. If you think VB would be best for this application as well it's no trouble for me to pick up the pen and paper for VB again, I just figured VB at the cost of simplicity sacrificed flexibility.

And yeah Zach, it does sound like a fun project doesn't it? Programming a real "perfect" player, capable of getting up to the 'legit' hundred millionares, almost completely standalone. All the fun of playing neopets, without playing neopets! Well. With a sloppy release though it could be disastrous and create such high competition that life on neo would go bonkers hahaThat is why this is so exciting! The Neo cheating scene has been around for a long time but I feel like it's still in such low levels of development. I think it's time to pioneer something cutting edge. And the programming realm right now is in a prime time for something like this! I'm going to start on something like this after I finish my altador plot completer (which is another beautiful trophy of coding excellence) :)

Now a days, simplicity IS flexibility in regards to programming.

[Xanice]

That is why this is so exciting! The Neo cheating scene has been around for a long time but I feel like it's still in such low levels of development. I think it's time to pioneer something cutting edge. And the programming realm right now is in a prime time for something like this! I'm going to start on something like this after I finish my altador plot completer (which is another beautiful trophy of coding excellence) :)

Now a days, simplicity IS flexibility in regards to programming.

Not if I start programming first!!!! /makes a program with "Hello World" and saves it as 'Brilliant Neopets Humanoid Proggie thing'

There. Copyright posted!

[esperanto]

Not if I start programming first!!!! /makes a program with "Hello World" and saves it as 'Brilliant Neopets Humanoid Proggie thing'

There. Copyright posted!

OMG I was lurking and read that and died laughing xD I've made so many damn "Hello World" programs :P

[Demo]

That is why this is so exciting! The Neo cheating scene has been around for a long time but I feel like it's still in such low levels of development. I think it's time to pioneer something cutting edge. And the programming realm right now is in a prime time for something like this! I'm going to start on something like this after I finish my altador plot completer (which is another beautiful trophy of coding excellence) :)

Now a days, simplicity IS flexibility in regards to programming.
I'm still waiting for you to get back to me about a quote for my project :(

[Xanice]

Excellent. Give him more work to do. Dance puppets dance! Meh, if I were to finish my intended project by the end of the summer I honestly would be surprised LOL. Stalling does me no good :( Onward to refreshing on VB!

[DarkByte]

Could be done effectively with separate apps. Of course all in one app it would be neater but the code would get massive. Hopefully my framework will help on this.

[Xanice]

Could be done effectively with separate apps. Of course all in one app it would be neater but the code would get massive. Hopefully my framework will help on this.

By different apps, do you mean code the entities seperately? IE, let's say a autobuyer, auto stocker, etc etc. all coded as seperate applications, then essentially connect all the seperate applications together, or maybe even 'call' them when they're next in queue for being executed? Something along those lines? If that is what you mean, then yeah, I do agree that that would make the program a hell of alot more effective (to the point of this being necessity) for two reasons.

Different people could work on the coding of different parts at once without actually halting the entire project (open source type work) and also the code in itself will be both cleaner and quicker, as the program won't have to run through thousands of unneeded lines of code just to run the correct application at the right time. Coding like "If yyy condition is met, RUN autobuyer.exe" as an example would be easier for the program to sort through then if the entire autobuy script was in the same file as the auction sniper script. I think anyway? I could be entirely wrong.

[DarkByte]

I envision it as a whole bunch of apps in a folder that are linked (They can share cookie files). There would be a "Governor" app that watches over all the other apps and at say 10a.m would run a dailys program with a paramater like so

dailys.exe -expiretime=10pm

Then the app would find the "expiretime" parameter on form load and when this time comes close itself. Something along those lines doesn't seem so hard :P

[Xanice]

Ah okay. So then my idea was more or less on target, with the exception that my language was probably COMPLETELY wrong since I don't know the actual keyterms haha. Yeah I would envision it the same. Through this method, honestly, alot of the code could be recycled too, so the autobuyer, autonsniper, pricer, etc wouldn't have to be hardcoded all over again. Maybe adjusted (if someone was willing to allow the use of their code in the project of course) to ensure compatibility with the "governer" but that's about it.

With all this being said, I like where this topic is going, it's giving me more concrete ideas on how this program would be made. With that being said, I wonder who would want to devote long hours and manual labor for (as of yet, something that wouldn't be decided for some time) virtually no real money payoff? =P A think tank might be fun for something like this, if there were enough interest to make this a collaborative effort.

[Zachafer]

the code in itself will be both cleaner and quicker, as the program won't have to run through thousands of unneeded lines of code just to run the correct application at the right time. Coding like "If yyy condition is met, RUN autobuyer.exe" as an example would be easier for the program to sort through then if the entire autobuy script was in the same file as the auction sniper script. I think anyway? I could be entirely wrong.

raredaredevil's idea would work, but that is a very old way of doing things. Wouldn't it be better to have one program that shared the same wrapper (cookies) between each arm of the program? Wouldn't it make threading really easy? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to communicate that you want the Auction Sniper to start after you've bought 10 items from user shops? Sure this can be done with separate applications, but not easily - and the solution is less effective than putting each "arm" of the program into an organized OOP-styled program.


With that being said, I wonder who would want to devote long hours and manual labor for (as of yet, something that wouldn't be decided for some time) virtually no real money payoff? =P

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Xanice]

raredaredevil's idea would work, but that is a very old way of doing things. Wouldn't it be better to have one program that shared the same wrapper (cookies) between each arm of the program? Wouldn't it make threading really easy? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to communicate that you want the Auction Sniper to start after you've bought 10 items from user shops? Sure this can be done with separate applications, but not easily - and the solution is less effective than putting each "arm" of the program into an organized OOP-styled program.



[Only registered and activated users can see links]

You're a magic lamp full of answers Zach! Now i just need to figure out a way to direct everyone's attention to this thread x; although somehow I have high doubts sean or undead will participate

[DarkByte]

raredaredevil's idea would work, but that is a very old way of doing things. Wouldn't it be better to have one program that shared the same wrapper (cookies) between each arm of the program? Wouldn't it make threading really easy? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to communicate that you want the Auction Sniper to start after you've bought 10 items from user shops? Sure this can be done with separate applications, but not easily - and the solution is less effective than putting each "arm" of the program into an organized OOP-styled program.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Yep absolutely that's the best way , not the easiest but the best. The problem I foresee with the method I posted is the windows user control system witch pops up when a program wants to run a admin . I suppose the best way would be to start coding and work out witch method works the best for you.

P.S not everyone wants to make programs for money :).

[Zachafer]

I'm actually going to start on this - by latest Thursday :)

[DarkByte]

Any progress?

I started a project based on this idea , Heres what I have so far , excuse the gui it has not been worked on.

Account manager -
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Each account runs in a seperate thread , you can have unlimited running at once


Money Tree grabber class-
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
This shows how the multiple accounts are managed , you select any logged in account from the right hand side and click "manage account" , then the money tree grabber settings you are using for that account currently will show in the window as-well as any logs ect. You can have multiple settings every different account. Additionally you can save settings to file , this will be usefull later when scheduling is added.

I know it looks simple atm , but its a crapton of code to get this working in a way that wont cause issues further down the line.

Note:Accounts are mules , usernames in sshots dont matter

[Xanice]

Any progress?

I started a project based on this idea , Heres what I have so far , excuse the gui it has not been worked on.

Account manager -
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Each account runs in a seperate thread , you can have unlimited running at once


Money Tree grabber class-
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
This shows how the multiple accounts are managed , you select any logged in account from the right hand side and click "manage account" , then the money tree grabber settings you are using for that account currently will show in the window as-well as any logs ect. You can have multiple settings every different account. Additionally you can save settings to file , this will be usefull later when scheduling is added.

I know it looks simple atm , but its a crapton of code to get this working in a way that wont cause issues further down the line.

Note:Accounts are mules , usernames in sshots dont matter


Hm the GUI looks clean. I think me and zach have laid out more or less all the features which would be needed for the programming, and I have written in-depth step-by-steps the precision needed for each function of each program to make it work in such a way of a human. I just ordered a beginniners and advanced book for VB today from amazon so I was intending to start actual coding by the end of the week. I have basics down but i figure a book for core fundamentals which I may have missed would be handy, and the more advanced one was more related to .net framework (i think).

raredaredevil

if there is any good VB books you can recommend me to obtain, I would love to purchase them so that i can brush my skills up. As to the GUI, it looks clean and well, but there is a particular feature i was thinking of adding which may need to extend the GUI to include a mini browser in it. That feature was still a WIP and currently still in the beta of idea making though.

Let me know if you would like to partake in some exchange of ideas and such xP Yeah, coding this in a way where codes won't conflict probably will end up being a large migraine too though. But if it wasn't that hard to code it, it wouldn't look realistic. After all, the program more or less has to emulate a human's mind :P Additionally, I don't think adding a multi-account feature would be extremely beneficial to a program like this. By allowing people to manage multiple profiles, it suddenly increases the risk of freezing by ten fold. The only exception I can think of is having extremely good proxy support, but even then it's hard to say.

[DarkByte]

I was never really into any books when i was learning , I learnt from hacking a game called unreal tournament that had a scripting language when I was about 12. made aimbots ect for it for a long time , there language was very close to java. From there I learn't vb.6 and worked on neopets programs when I was about 14. Then I did some work in c++ and asm with darkbye on a program called "Rare Engine Lite" , this was a stripped version of cheat engine without many advanced detected features. It worked on game guard games. Then I made some Tibia programs in delphi and started to use vb.net last year and some python too just because how great it is for http out the box.

Zach posted a snippet on object oriented programming and it surprised me really how similar it was to what I was already doing (with some changes). It was never a goal of mine to learn oop but I seemed to naturally progress to a code style that was very similar. Learning one language defiantly helps when learning another , soon as you get the syntax down you are set.

One think about vb.net though , many people run there code the same way as vb6 , ie in a button or timer or something similar. The problem is this causes gui to lag due to a bug in the built in http class used by all wrappers that I know of. To combat this you have to use a thread to handle the code or a background worker , witch is just like a thread.

Pass parameters to a thread though (such as txtusername.text) cannot be done by just using function parameters or strings outside the thread though. This means all your code for moneytree for e.g has to be inside a class then things like "searchitemlist" are a varible inside the class. You then have to do something like this:



For i = 0 To Globals.accountlist.Count - 1
Dim curraccount As New account.accountcls
curraccount.username = Globals.accountlist.Item(i).username
curraccount.cookie= Globals.accountlist.Item(i).cookie
curraccount.loginstate = "Logging in..."
Dim thrMyThread As New System.Threading.Thread( _
AddressOf curraccount.LoginThread)
thrMyThread.Start()

Next i




For this reason my code needs to be coded in a certain way , but it allows me to keep every single function for the money tree inside the moneytree class / moneytree form. So things become alot more manageable. I like the browser Idea , i already save account cookies to a .txt file after you login so if you close the program and then reopen it your old cookie will be tried to see if its still valid. I am sure all I need to do is set this cookie as a webbrowser control cookie and im sure there will be a way to do that :). I might use that idea , lol. But I am also adding things like a inventory manager , bank manager so you an perform alot of account related task inside the program. This ties hand in hand with the api I wanted to work on , basically two birds with one stone ;).


if you want to talk
msnraredaredevil.com

[Xanice]

I was never really into any books when i was learning , I learnt from hacking a game called unreal tournament that had a scripting language when I was about 12. made aimbots ect for it for a long time , there language was very close to java. From there I learn't vb.6 and worked on neopets programs when I was about 14. Then I did some work in c++ and asm with darkbye on a program called "Rare Engine Lite" , this was a stripped version of cheat engine without many advanced detected features. It worked on game guard games. Then I made some Tibia programs in delphi and started to use vb.net last year and some python too just because how great it is for http out the box.

Zach posted a snippet on object oriented programming and it surprised me really how similar it was to what I was already doing (with some changes). It was never a goal of mine to learn oop but I seemed to naturally progress to a code style that was very similar. Learning one language defiantly helps when learning another , soon as you get the syntax down you are set.

One think about vb.net though , many people run there code the same way as vb6 , ie in a button or timer or something similar. The problem is this causes gui to lag due to a bug in the built in http class used by all wrappers that I know of. To combat this you have to use a thread to handle the code or a background worker , witch is just like a thread.

Pass parameters to a thread though (such as txtusername.text) cannot be done by just using function parameters or strings outside the thread though. This means all your code for moneytree for e.g has to be inside a class then things like "searchitemlist" are a varible inside the class. You then have to do something like this:




For this reason my code needs to be coded in a certain way , but it allows me to keep every single function for the money tree inside the moneytree class / moneytree form. So things become alot more manageable. I like the browser Idea , i already save account cookies to a .txt file after you login so if you close the program and then reopen it your old cookie will be tried to see if its still valid. I am sure all I need to do is set this cookie as a webbrowser control cookie and im sure there will be a way to do that :). I might still that idea , lol. But I am also adding things like a inventory manager , bank manager so you an perform alot of account related task inside the program. This ties hand in hand with the api I wanted to work on , basically two birds with one stone ;).

Thanks alot for the very enlightening post. As a brief response to stealing the browser idea, what about we join forces and create an ultra program with a three-person effort to have one program which surpasses all, rather than having two programs which may be so much less than what it can be. Don't know if you and zach code similarly, but the books I'm after are vb.net, I made sure to check if there was a diff between vb6 and vb.net, and picked books which are supposed to be about vb.net :)

But really, I have tons of ideas that you might find pretty brilliant if i say so myself. They simply need to be put into code to make nothing less than the perfect android ;) (for neo anyway).

[Zachafer]

Thanks alot for the very enlightening post. As a brief response to stealing the browser idea, what about we join forces and create an ultra program with a three-person effort to have one program which surpasses all, rather than having two programs which may be so much less than what it can be. Don't know if you and zach code similarly, but the books I'm after are vb.net, I made sure to check if there was a diff between vb6 and vb.net, and picked books which are supposed to be about vb.net :)

But really, I have tons of ideas that you might find pretty brilliant if i say so myself. They simply need to be put into code to make nothing less than the perfect android ;) (for neo anyway).

I won't be working with rare on the ideas we discussed.

[Xanice]

I won't be working with rare on the ideas we discussed.

2 man squadron it is. I will refrain from posting anymore of my ideas then. Sorry rare :x

[DarkByte]

No problem I do not know why the secrecy I mean did you not ask me for my source code last night to my project as it stands right now?
I said no because I did not consider the code clean enough in its current state but sure I would send it you when it was complete.

But you do not want me to hear some ideas that I would have to code myself? Sort your head out.

[Zachafer]

No problem I do not know why the secrecy I mean did you not ask me for my source code last night to my project as it stands right now?
I said no because I did not consider the code clean enough in its current state but sure I would send it you when it was complete.

But you do not want me to hear some ideas that I would have to code myself? Sort your head out.
I just wanted to ensure your OOP was headed in the right direction and was going to try to help you sort out any OOP questions you had. The way Ciricus and I have planned out this project is very in depth. It would be hard to work a 3rd programmer in anyways.

[j03]

Hard to work a 3rd programmer in? Bad choice of words there lol especially when the third person is Rare. :P

[DarkByte]

Do not worry about it Joe. You seem to be under the false impression that you showing me some oop samples makes me your student. Sorry kid but I was hacking neopets while you was in diapers , literally. I like oop but the truth is without it I could still make unique bots for games never seen before. I have been retired for 5 years this has been plenty of time for someone else to step up to the plate and hack these new games.

And yet.... All the hacks on these forums suck , there the same hacks as when I created codex at 12 years old just with new programmer names and a few new features. So you say you are waiting on my oop? I have not been impressed by a single programmer or program here. Unlike me you have been active the past 5 years and yet you have not made any unique bots for the newest games. This leads me to believe you simply do not know how. Why would I work with someone like this? Just because you program in a nice style does not reflect your ability to program and everything I have seen you put out so far is nothing that I have not seen plenty of times before in various forums I have owned/been a part of.

[Frank12]

And boom goes the dynamite

[Xanice]

Now now fellas, while I may not have any programming authority so to speak as I've just started learning it (although some people recommended me to switch to learn C#, not quite sure if this would be a change suited toward making autonomous human bots) please don't fight. I'm sure neither of you means to offend the other, and sometimes there are misunderstandings which cause arguments. While in general, I don't plan on releasing exact details to the public, especially on the specifics of HOW the bot works (for obvious reasons being other people taking ideas, TNT spotting ideas and looking out for them, and just overhype from people who want to abuse such a program) I fully respect any contribution in the direction of this thread. And even while trying to distance myself from the exact details i have for this project, I would happily give my input on anyone's crack at this program.

I do believe this program to be entirely unique, however, not by the features it will include, but by how the threads can seamlessly interact with each other. That would be the foundation of my theory to making such a bot. Still, honestly, I don't think I've actually explained in 100% detail every single knit-picked step of my program ideas as how the program can interact in the game since I am still thinking of them.

[DarkByte]

This idea may be unique to neopets but it has been done a thousand times in other games I have been involved with. The fact that its not been made in the past is kind of my point. No ones fighting I honestly dont care but don't think that every other programmer who has worked for neopets has not had this idea at least at one point while programming.

Infact joe as the source code to rarebot , a attempt at a program just like this I did about 7 years ago. So yeah...

[Xanice]

This idea may be unique to neopets but it has been done a thousand times in other games I have been involved with. The fact that its not been made in the past is kind of my point. No ones fighting I honestly dont care but don't think that every other programmer who has worked for neopets has not had this idea at least at one point while programming.

If you say so. But tell me what games you could possibly mean that this idea "has been done in the past". And yes of course the idea is not brand new. Human-like androids are what man first dreamed of when stepping into robotics. If those thousands of games you've been involved with has had such a success rate at emulating a human player, I'd happily listen to any ideas you've obtained about the bot initiating conversation with other players. That is one of the most valued and buggiest features that I'm planning out. Making it in such a way where a bot responds normally and can even initiate conversation is an arduous task which likely would require too much work and resources.

If you have a good method, feel free to disprove the pride of my work.

[DarkByte]

I see so now you want my ideas but you will not share with me yours.

My program will be open source with no auth as with everyone of my programs, you can take the features when its out I am not trying to make money off bots.

[j03]

Damn, Zach got ripped to pieces a few posts earlier.

What Rare has said is true though. He set the standards for Neopets cheating a long time ago and since then people have done nothing but find other ways of re-creating and improving these bots with different features.

[Xanice]

I see so now you want my ideas but you will not share with me yours.

My program will be open source with no auth as with everyone of my programs, you can take the features when its out I am not trying to make money off bots.

Entirely wrong. I don't really care much for your ideas about the actual bot. Your ideas without the direction I'm leaning toward is 100% useless to me. It's like putting the wrong engine in a car when building one. I was looking for your input, and if you had any concerns about anything said, I would reply to the best of my ability. It's more if any I said was offensive, or if you had any gripes with me or this post. I will say this here though, I won't share ideas PUBLICLY. This means to those who aren't collaborating with me, I won't share my specific ideas with them. If you think I'm full of talk, perhaps I am, but as I've said I've already thought of several ways to create human interaction between bot and legitimate players, as well as FAR more features for this particular bot than ever thought of before.

Yes, this means your bots. I have atleast a dozen different actions in mind for this bot which has never before been seen, much less even thought of by you. It's a pity, but it seems when people have been programming too long, they forget how to be dreamers.

P.S. A bot that is public is useless for the program at hand. This is for obvious reasons, but you're a programmer, use logic. Maybe in a decade you might figure it out

[DarkByte]

I disagree a bot that is public and open source teaches future generations of programmers. Even if I make a key quest auto player for instance that sucked and was on a vb timer it would be a huge deal. Programmers would use my source and improve it until eventually key quest players are a normal bot found in every forum.

On the other hand I can charge for it like u intend. Or release privately on this forum and move up in the ranks. Neither appeal to me.

[Xanice]

I disagree a bot that is public and open source teaches future generations of programmers. Even if I make a key quest auto player for instance that sucked and was on a vb timer it would be a huge deal. Programmers would use my source and improve it until eventually key quest players are a normal bot found in every forum.

On the other hand I can charge for it like u intend. Or release privately on this forum and move up in the ranks. Neither appeal to me.

The source is not the problem. The program's framework doesn't require tons of programming know-how. Most functions of it can be done in an extremely simple manner. Of course efficiency is an issue, and coding it in a way so that the threads don't interfere with each other threads, and there are probably a few intricacies I can't recognize yet at my level.

HOWEVER. You misunderstand my point. The point of a program is to be beneficial to the users. With that being said, there is no amount of source code improvement that can 'fix' the problem with a public bot. It's blindingly obvious what the problem with a human-like public bot is, but thinking outside your own viewpoints is healthy for you, if you get around to it. Charging is only a means to an end for this bot. It's like Joe having VIP for clraik. You do it to stop leechers for one, but another way to look at it is to keep the userbase more exclusive. Additionally, it's a win win, because members get access and he gets a little compensation for his time.

You're correct. Open-source does help programmers of the future, and that's respectable. But that is NOT my purpose in imagining this bot. I am not imagining a bot for a dying game as a medium to help programmers. It is meant for people in the community to play the game more effectively without risk and without spending hours upon hours doing things they dread.

Regardless, thank you for the contribution to this thread, but it appears that the target audience you have in mind is not aligned with the one I have in mind. Best of luck with your program. I hope it teaches alot of new programmers much in the future.

[Zachafer]

I don't know how this all got started but it's fun to watch. Rare I know you are a great programmer and you are very innovative but our programming styles conflict. That's all I was saying when I said I won't be working with you.

It seems to me like you are more into finding new things to program: new exploits, new bots, new methods, etc. Which is very cool - that is definitely a key part of a Neo cheating community. I'm more into optimization, expanding, and adding features/anti-ice methods. Both are important components and thrive off each other.

[Frank12]

Ciricus, just saying that some thing you come up with have never been thought of before seems a tad pretentious for a newer programmer.

And by things you only have thought of, would any of these include -
Randomization of time between bot changes, random clicking around the site (need pathways for this), using games (scoresender) to supplement neopoints when bank is low, selling on the trading post (imo it would probably be easier to auction, and create or link to an item database for UB items. I guess you can use a shop auto pricer for small time items, but for larger items, maybe a trading post reader, where it reads the number associated with the item, creates the lot, and then accepts or rejects trades based on tht proximity to the initial tp price. You'd have to factor in ETS items.) How about neomail exchange, finding a lifelike way to respond to potential neomails? A neoboard poster in the rs and chats - would improve legitimacy of any rsed item. Or making it so, like a normal user, they gravitate towards certain items in auctions. Again, a database for items would be key here, as it could reflect what the max price spending would be (percentage based maybe). Stock buyers and auto trainers are easy. As for shop autobuying, as well as auction sniping, it would be interesting to see if an item value purchased exceeded x value, it doesnt sit in the inventory but instead goes to trades or auctions, randomly. I would assume that might be a tip off to TNT, when an item of plus 5 mil is bought and the bot continues to run. I know if I legit rsed something of that value, I would at least move it right away. How about adding avatar grabbers and such to make the account more legit? As neo users typically like to improve their account from time to time, I can see something like that being likely. Advertising on neoboards would be pretty interesting. Shop bans would need to be assessed. When a bot gets banned, there seems to be delay between the ban and when the bot reads the ban and ceases. Flawless integration is a must. When you are banned on neo, you don't just keep mindlessly refreshing. You go rant about it somewhere, or sign off for a bit. Sign off, that another thing. That can't be randomized across a broad spectrum. Assume a normal day. Log ons and log offs need to be within certain times. I dont log on at 4 am and sign off at 9 pm. Or log on for 2 minutes. Typically when i log on and off, its around a certain time. daily doers seem pretty neccesary, but maybe randomize it so not all are done at once and not all are even done. Most of the time, people don't even bother with all of the dailies.

Just spitting some ideas.

[Xanice]

Ciricus, just saying that some thing you come up with have never been thought of before seems a tad pretentious for a newer programmer.

And by things you only have thought of, would any of these include -
Randomization of time between bot changes, random clicking around the site (need pathways for this), using games (scoresender) to supplement neopoints when bank is low, selling on the trading post (imo it would probably be easier to auction, and create or link to an item database for UB items. I guess you can use a shop auto pricer for small time items, but for larger items, maybe a trading post reader, where it reads the number associated with the item, creates the lot, and then accepts or rejects trades based on tht proximity to the initial tp price. You'd have to factor in ETS items.) How about neomail exchange, finding a lifelike way to respond to potential neomails? A neoboard poster in the rs and chats - would improve legitimacy of any rsed item. Or making it so, like a normal user, they gravitate towards certain items in auctions. Again, a database for items would be key here, as it could reflect what the max price spending would be (percentage based maybe). Stock buyers and auto trainers are easy. As for shop autobuying, as well as auction sniping, it would be interesting to see if an item value purchased exceeded x value, it doesnt sit in the inventory but instead goes to trades or auctions, randomly. I would assume that might be a tip off to TNT, when an item of plus 5 mil is bought and the bot continues to run. I know if I legit rsed something of that value, I would at least move it right away. How about adding avatar grabbers and such to make the account more legit? As neo users typically like to improve their account from time to time, I can see something like that being likely. Advertising on neoboards would be pretty interesting. Shop bans would need to be assessed. When a bot gets banned, there seems to be delay between the ban and when the bot reads the ban and ceases. Flawless integration is a must. When you are banned on neo, you don't just keep mindlessly refreshing. You go rant about it somewhere, or sign off for a bit. Sign off, that another thing. That can't be randomized across a broad spectrum. Assume a normal day. Log ons and log offs need to be within certain times. I dont log on at 4 am and sign off at 9 pm. Or log on for 2 minutes. Typically when i log on and off, its around a certain time. daily doers seem pretty neccesary, but maybe randomize it so not all are done at once and not all are even done. Most of the time, people don't even bother with all of the dailies.

Just spitting some ideas.

The ideas I have thought of has nothing to do with programming. It may be pretentious as a person, but not as a programmer. I don't know if you're a programmer, but yes, those are all small features I have already planned out for the bot. The reason why I decided to take up programming myself instead of simply relaying all my ideas to someone else is because obviously I don't want them stolen and I want credit for my work. Also quality of work assurance. Finally, the reason why I officially started learning programming (while I already knew the basics beforehand through minor knowledge of js and php, as well as working in coursework with VB macros and microsoft access) was to ensure I created blueprints to a program that was 100% possible.

Your ideas are good, and in the right direction. I have already written down eveything you have said though, as well as more on my own piece of papers (20 pages long roughly). Random refresh is obvious, as is alot of the features you've talked about. You have said some interesting things that I will go over more thoroughly, but yes, I have thought of all of those features and they are a mere tip of the iceberg. Addtionally, I have written in psuedo-code how all these features will be implemented. I am in the final stages of planning as to how to run these features together, which I need more knowledge on threading to do accurately.

Another intteresting tid bit is I've already figured out a way for the bot to scan for, offer and accept/reject trade offers for items in excess of 800k. Interactive neomails I have some beta ideas, but nothing 100% solid yet, though the ideas are still very good compared to no idea at all

[DarkByte]

I like ur ideas and you raise a good point there are certain things a human does that just sticking a scheduler inside to handle is just not enough , I have a way around this however. One of my old progs nts had a built in scripting language having bots u can run with different options from a scripting language gives u a lot more options to customise the bot so it runs in a way unique to you.

The trick is making this easy for a none experienced programmer to do.