Creationism vs. Evolution

[MissMellon]

I have half an hour to kill left at work so I'd thought I'd chip in.

I am a scientist at heart, always loved to learn about how things work and where they came from, currently I'm working on becoming a bio-medical engineer. It should also be stated I am a fairly religious person. I grew up in the Church, left it for personal reasons, and went back around when I was 18.

On creationism I find that in the Bible, Jesus and just about everything is very rarely literal. There are some things that are pretty basic and easy to get what it means out of, but almost everything is so open to interpretation it's kinda ridiculous. Hence the piles and piles of different branches of Christianity at this point, if there's a disagreement there's a break off and thus another branch surfaces. Personally I'm leaning to the side of Liberal Quaker but I won't be officially so until I can attend a meeting house and join. So for the whole story of creation I believe in it but I don't think it's literal. I think God made the world exactly as it was, would be and had been. Where we are is part of His plan, where we were is part of His plan and where we will be is part of His plan.

One of the things I love about science is that I see God in it. Things are so complex! It's true, and the closer you look the more amazing it is that we are alive, that all these things came together and thus a human is here, or a fly, or a banana! It's all crazy and cool. The Theory of Evolution makes a whole ton of sense actually. Why don't humans have wings? Why should we! We don't need them, we survive fine without them, excellent actually we're pretty high on the food chain! Our intelligence? That is our wings, or are hard shell or whatever means of survival. We evolved into that because it helped us survive and pass on!

How do these mutations come about? Well DNA is an amazing effective complex thing. It's a bunch of complicated genetic info and process with checks and balance to prevent error! However even the most effective system has flaws sometimes. There's a thing called p53 that can tell if a cell is way off and if it is, bada boom the cell kills itself to prevent harm to the person. You see many examples of mutations occurring in day to day lives. Miscarriages and genetic errors are closely tied! If the mutation occurs in certain spots the life is no longer viable :/ In that aspect you don't see so many bad mutations passed on, this is less obvious in humans as how far we've come in our intelligence and medical science we can compensate and keep people alive who without this stuff would not. In nature a blind animal who is not suppose to be blind will not survive very long [Unless it gets really lucky which does happen!] So the animal has no chance to give that trait to it's offspring, however say it had a mutation that IMPROVED it's eyesight, now the animal has a leg up on everyone else and is more likely to produce offspring and pass that trait on, and repeat and repeat and repeat! Everything from your environment influences this stuff and the changes are apparent from where you are. Some things are helpful in a part of the world that are not in another. The world is amazing and complex! That's why you see so many different traits!

It really is a luck of the draw sort of thing, amazing and a lot of chance involved. Genetics are funky like that sometimes. Effective effective effective but one oops in the right spot and boom mutation. While there are lots more to it all [Amazing stuff to learn about really, I encourage it] Once again I do think God has play a role in everything we are, had been or will be! Science is a gift just as anything else has been, it would be a horrible thing to waste as it does so much good for people. All that sickness and death that science has helped get rid of or stop and protect you from! I strongly believe those are God's gifts to the world, to ease the suffering that is life. Embrace God, Embrace science! They are both amazing and fulfilling things

[One more note I'd like to make is there are NO LEAPS these are slow gradual changes! They take a lot of time!]

[Fleur]

I don't really see any god behind science, it just doesn't click with me. In regards to DNA, if god created it, why did he allow mutations to occur? There are beneficial mutations, sure, but there are also "bad" mutations, why is that? Why didn't god create a perfect universe? This might be a little off tangent as well but, why is there evil in the world when a deity that supposedly created the universe could have easily made it evil free? It just makes more sense to me that, since DNA is super complex, there's bound to be a mistake made during the replication process. It's interesting (no sarcasm intended) that you see god behind evolution whereas I just see it as it is. I'm not trying to argue whether you're right or wrong at all. It just makes more sense to me that mutations occur because of some error in the process (e.g. incorrectly paired nucleotides) because shit happens. I thought (you need an account to see links) was an interesting read in regards to it as well. I dunno, I just don't see any god behind science, it just makes no sense to me personally (you are welcome to your own beliefs!).

Also just want to say that anyone who studies science is awesome so yay high five for science!

[MissMellon]

I more see God behind everything thus behind it as well. If everything was perfect, nothing would be. Evil reflects good, grief and joy, they co exist. Everything does. I find WWII to be an interesting study because it shows some of the very worst of life and the very best. The awful awful things that happened and the people who stood against it despite the cost to themselves expecting no reward. Human nature is a funky thing, even more funky then science. If you were always happy you never would be. The parallels in life suck sometimes, they truly do, I know plenty about the evil in this world. Every flaw in the world is what makes life what it is. Despite everything, all the pain and all the horror in it, life is a beautiful thing. Our experiences shape us, it never feels like it at the time but everything does happen for a reason. Pain is a very human thing. I dunno, I never really understood the concept of perfect. The only time I can ever see it being possible is when there is chaos as well.

But I agree to each there own, I don't really like the whole convert people thing within it. I think if faith isn't real and come to on ones own it won't be real thus pointless. But the thing about faith is everyone has reason for believing and reasons for not. Just as you see no reason, I see one. People vary quite a bit, part of what makes life interesting you know.

But yes...Science yasssss Biology and Robots make me ♥♥♥

(Also for reference sake that is why mutations occur! I agree with science! I just believe it is all as it is meant to be, as I said a perfect world cannot be, perfect needs chaos.)

[Slytherin]

If you were always happy you never would be. [/I]

I find this interesting since heaven is suppose to be eternal bliss. Does that mean you wouldn't be happy in heaven?

[Fisher]

I don't really see any god behind science, it just doesn't click with me. In regards to DNA, if god created it, why did he allow mutations to occur? There are beneficial mutations, sure, but there are also "bad" mutations, why is that? Why didn't god create a perfect universe? This might be a little off tangent as well but, why is there evil in the world when a deity that supposedly created the universe could have easily made it evil free? It just makes more sense to me that, since DNA is super complex, there's bound to be a mistake made during the replication process. It's interesting (no sarcasm intended) that you see god behind evolution whereas I just see it as it is. I'm not trying to argue whether you're right or wrong at all. It just makes more sense to me that mutations occur because of some error in the process (e.g. incorrectly paired nucleotides) because shit happens. I thought (you need an account to see links) was an interesting read in regards to it as well. I dunno, I just don't see any god behind science, it just makes no sense to me personally (you are welcome to your own beliefs!).

Also just want to say that anyone who studies science is awesome so yay high five for science!

I just want to add my two cents from what I've learned from the Bible over the years, in the most judgement-free and non-argumentative way possible And please, let me know what you think! God didn't create perfectness because that would mean whoever he created would have to love him. The whole reason behind us humans, as according to the Bible, is so we can worship God by our own will, as well as share the good news of course. If he created everything perfect, everyone would essentially by content with..everything. Adam and Eve might not have fallen away, and everyone would automatically be for God.

But that's dumb. Haha I would hate if someone was forced to love me. And I know God feels the same way, which is way he gave us choice. Choice led to the divide between the world and God, thus leading to things beyond what he ever would have created (i.e. cancer, disease, etc.). Again, this is all just what I believe and the rule of 'to each their own' should most certainly be applied. I just ask everyone to respect others' opinions.

In regards to science, check out the Golden Rule in nature or the Fibonacci sequence. It's just hard to believe that perfection came about from nothing!

[MissMellon]

I find this interesting since heaven is suppose to be eternal bliss. Does that mean you wouldn't be happy in heaven?

Life doesn't have to be perfect to be bliss. As well I believe there are very different state of beings from Earth and Heaven. But it's just my personal belief. The main point being that I support Evolution with the personal belief that everything is part of God's plan. No one has to agree with that and it's okay. It's just what I believe

[WaterWings]

What a great topic, and one that can get very heated at times so i'll do my best to be very open here.

There is a link between science & religion, which over the years has become more distant from each other. It is clear to me that evolution does exist but as many other have said, we are not apes. I do feel as though there was some "spark" so to speak, to start everything. Whether that be God, or whatever name you give it, there definitely has been some intervention regarding the human species. I feel it is ridiculous to think that we are the only ones in this universe with a capable mind. And there are things that science cannot explain. Humans as a whole are too set on defining everything and giving it relativity to what "we know". There is more than the physical world we live in, and the vastness is quite alarming (at least to myself).

So I guess i'm saying this, the world was not created less than 20,000 years ago and Dinosaurs walked on the Earth. But, there is something more than just what science has brought to the table.

[Chibicat]

Hi, just found this topic! I'm Christian so I swing the Creationalist way... ! I believe in God giving us choice/free will as well. God made our world with brilliant creativity and tender care. He created humanity to take care of and take pleasure in the planet, with rest and recreation in perfect balance.

[Mama Bear]

I am a staunch evolutionist. I was worried in high school biology that my teacher's strong Christian beliefs would affect our studies, but fortunately she was able to separate her personal beliefs from the science. I think that those who believe the negative things in the world, like cancer, are God's way of chastising humanity for the unbelievers are heading down a slippery slope. To me, that rings of fundamentalist groups like the Westboro Baptist Church and their hateful views. Saying that God caused evolution feels like a cop-out, like having your cake and eating it too. While I understand why people value faith, as a source of guidance, comfort or what have you, it is not for me. If it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone or interfere with their condition of living, believe what you like. But I'm proud to have been an ape.

[Fleur]

@(you need an account to see links) we didn't come from apes though.