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Thread: Supreme Court Overturns Several Controversial Topics

  1. #21
    Crooked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_royalty_I View Post
    Okay I can see your point there, it’s a good one. I personally can’t imagine going to a restaurant and being turned away because of how I live my life, so I can see how that would set a precedent in that regard. Makes sense to me. I looked at it as a business just not wanting to work with certain clients but I can see it stemming from there and I didn’t think about that aspect.

    Given your first point about there already being things in place to allow private businesses to do business or not do business with whoever they want - do you think this case should have gone to the Supreme Court? Do you know WHY it got that far anyway? I not as well versed on this one. If I were the couple I would have given that business the finger and gone somewhere else. If I were the business I’d have carried on with work on another project. Who pushed the matter?
    Someone with a background in law would be more qualified to answer these questions, but aside from looking for monetary compensation, people push these kinds of cases because they ultimately impact how laws are enforced. This is why Roe VS Wade was so important, and why it being struck down has had such drastic effects. Bringing discrimination cases to court creates the possibility for the offender to be held accountable and to strengthen anti-discrimination laws.

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  3. #22
    kalez's Avatar
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    I'm not good at debates or anything, but abortion being illegal due to religious reasons alone is such a misstep, especially for the myriad medical concerns alone.
    Like I can understand the beliefs of some that life begins in the womb and all that, you are free to believe that, but it's so disingenuous to force that across people who don't share that belief.
    Honestly boggles my mind.

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  5. #23
    Nameless Ghoul's Avatar
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    I don't think the supreme court can remotely call itself impartial and unbiased anymore (if it ever was) making these decisions. None of these decisions they've made are in the best interest of the citizens but are clearly pushing conservative politics. Corrupt is an understatement.

    The church and state haven't been separate in ages, and these are the same people using the Constitution as an arguing point every chance they get as long as it supports their agenda.

    I mean, these are clearly religiously motivated to some degree. We can't forgive student debt but we can forgive the church 3 billion dollars or some odd amount; they're outright allowing Christian/Catholic businesses to discriminate against LGBTQ+ people--

    I'm scared of the precedent these overturns are setting, they're just the tip of the iceberg for destroying so much civil rights progress the States have made; it always starts small.

    - - - Updated - - -


    @(you need an account to see links) Oh absolutely, as soon as the government has control over people's bodies and the agency they have over their own bodies, things have gone wrong.

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  7. #24
    kalez's Avatar
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    (you need an account to see links)

    Just ran into this... Apparently the guy never requested such services and is also just not gay
    How did nobody even verify this

  8. #25
    phantasia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delibird View Post
    FIrstly, this is a debate thread and please be kind and courteous with citing of facts and opinions. We all want to be respectful regardless of which party you are or if you are in agreeance or non-agreeance.


    Now off to the topics at hand. (I did study Constitutional Law in University and was Pre-Law)


    1) Supreme Court guts Affirmative Action in College Admissions
    This is a landmark case that was set up several years ago in order to give people of color an opportunity to be considered for universities and universities had to accept a certain amount of people of color and consideration in admissions.

    The Supreme Court says that colleges and universities can no longer take race into consideration as specific basis for granting admission, a landmark decision overturning long-standing precedent that has benefited Black and Latino students in higher education.

    Chief John Roberts wrote:
    “The Harvard and UNC admissions programs cannot be reconciled with the guarantees of the Equal Protection Clause. Both programs lack sufficiently focused and measurable objectives warranting the use of race, unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve racial stereotyping, and lack meaningful end points. We have never permitted admissions programs to work in that way, and we will not do so today,” Roberts
    Source: (you need an account to see links)

    The court basically said that race should not be a factor for consideration in admissions and that that does not stop applicants from stating how race has affected the applicant's life and can still be part of the application.

    I did however appreciate the dissent from Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson that dissented:
    “With let-them-eat-cake obliviousness, today, the majority pulls the ripcord and announces ‘colorblindness for all’ by legal fiat,” she wrote. “But deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. And having so detached itself from this country’s actual past and present experiences, the Court has now been lured into interfering with the crucial work that UNC and other institutions of higher learning are doing to solve America’s real-world problems.”
    Source: (you need an account to see links)

    Many people have been outspoken and come forward such as Michelle Obama who stated that if it wasn't for affirmative action, she would not have in fact been where she is today.


    2) Supreme Court says Christian Business Owners can refuse to create same-sex marriage websites.
    The Supreme Court ruled Friday for a Christian web designer in Colorado who refuses to create website to celebrate same-sex weddings out of religious objections.

    In dissent, Sotomayor said the decision will undermine the government’s compelling interest in ensuring that all Americans have equal access to the public marketplace.

    “Today, the Court, for the first time in its history, grants a business open to the public a constitutional right to refuse to serve members of a protected class,” she wrote.

    “Specifically, the Court holds that the First Amendment exempts a website design company from a state law that prohibits the company from denying wedding websites to same-sex couples if the company chooses to sell those websites to the public.”

    She called this a “sad day in American constitutional law and the lives of LGBT people.”

    “By issuing this new license to discriminate in a case brought by a company that seeks to deny same-sex couples the full and equal enjoyment of its services, the immediate, symbolic effect of the decision is to mark gays and lesbians for second-class status.”

    This could in turn cause discrimination for LGBTQ+ communities or open up a reversal for gay marriage if a lawsuit were to arise.

    Source: (you need an account to see links)


    3) Supreme Court blocks Biden's Student Loan Forgiveness Program
    The Supreme Court blocked the Biden administration’s student loan forgiveness plan on Friday, invalidating a program aimed at delivering up to $20,000 of relief to millions of borrowers struggling with outstanding debt in the aftermath of Covid.

    “The Secretary’s comprehensive debt cancellation plan cannot fairly be called a waiver — it not only nullifies existing provisions, but augments and expands them dramatically,” Roberts wrote.

    Essentially, the Court Justices can take fancy vacations/trips and receive donations from billionaires but when it comes to student debt, they turn a blind eye.

    Biden had a company that was wiling to do the student debt relief and was held up in the Supreme Court. Biden now faces the challenges of whether or not he can sign an executive order regarding the HEROES Act which congress approved previously.


    My Dissent:
    The Supreme Court has a responsibility to be impartial and to benefit its constituents at the highest level. The failure of not only the reversal of Roe v. Wade and Abortion rights and now Affirmative Action and Gay right's is backwards movement and sets back decades of civil rights.

    To be upset is an understatement that the Supreme Court has become a political weapon to carry out certain agendas and NOT to benefit the American People. These Justices are not elected officials or justices and therefore should have some sort of liability when it comes to civil rights violations.

    There are solutions to this conservative majority, however, Biden has stated he is against expanding the court. There are now 12 District Courts and there should technically be 12 justices. (1 for each).

    If there is no action taken within the liberal party, the conservative party will come in and take over and possibly expand the court to overrule cases that will impact generations to come if actions are not met in 2024.

    The Constitution says that the Church and State need to be separate. Justice Amy Coney Barrett contradicts this by saying she will bring religion into consideration on all her cases. To say this is a clusterfuck would be saying this very nicely.

    Looking forward to everyone's opinions on these and including Roe v. Wade.

    I am a law graduate. Although I never entered practice

    The thing that I spotted in all your arguments and that you are only looking at one side. Remeber there are two sides to every case.
    I am in South Africa and I really don't keep up so sorry if this was considered.

    In the case about the student loans... what about those that did pay and is now living a lower income life than they would should there debts has also be paid? Should there money also be returned?
    When ever money is granted somewhere it is take somewhere ells. To give the students there debt alleviation it might mean that someone might get less medical treatment or the taxrate will need to be pushed up further.

    Regarding the website developer. What about the developers right. Should we be forced to do what we are against? Everything is about freedom - you are free to practice your own religion and no one can force you into something but here you want to force the website developers. What cant they just go to someone different that has no objection?

    So yea that's just my input. Remeber that everything can be argued in different directions and a legal professional need to be able to weigh different rights and think of the wider implications.

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  10. #26
    I_royalty_I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalez View Post
    (you need an account to see links)

    Just ran into this... Apparently the guy never requested such services and is also just not gay
    How did nobody even verify this
    Honestly, I am beyond confused on that one now. I thought it was a website designer at first who refused service. Then after seeing posts here and looking up articles a little more, I thought it was a bakery that refused service to the gay couple. Now that article says it was a website designer. Right now I don’t know who was refusing service to who and what that article is even trying to say lol
    What's my definition of success?
    Creating something no one else can
    Being brave enough to dream big
    Grindin' when you're told to just quit
    Giving more when you got nothin' left

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  12. #27
    Sylveon231's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalez View Post
    I'm not good at debates or anything, but abortion being illegal due to religious reasons alone is such a misstep, especially for the myriad medical concerns alone.
    Like I can understand the beliefs of some that life begins in the womb and all that, you are free to believe that, but it's so disingenuous to force that across people who don't share that belief.
    Honestly boggles my mind.
    It's definitely worth to note that making abortion illegal is actually SUPPRESSING religious rights.
    Judaism pretty strictly says that if the mother's life is at risk, she is the priority and must be able to have an abortion to save her life. It varies between denominations and probably even in families what exactly constitutes 'life-threatening' but it's pretty unanimous, and especially that a fetus is not a human until it breaches.

    But yeah, basically to sate one religions teaching, they're actively suppressing other religions.


    For me, my religious beliefs don't even mention or particularly care about abortion. A fetus is just kinda... there, there's no morality based on it. Even in the research I've done there's no consensus on when life begins. Personally I think life doesn't begin until the birth.

    2-3-1, 23 is number 1!

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  14. #28
    Misha's Avatar
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    #2 stinks of Westboro shit. Any business has the right to refuse service EXCEPT on the basis of race, religion, sexual preference, or gender. This should not only apply to brick and mortar establishments. Chick fil a or however it's spelled (I don't give a chicken fried fuck) can also eat a bag of dicks along with the Salvation Army.

    The one good thing I will say about Activision as a former employee, was that they ALWAYS adhered to and made sure that everyone was represented and addressed by their preferred pronouns/properly represented when it came to LGBTQ+ game content. Most progressive workplace I've ever been a part of.

    A handful of the people that I'm around being in a rural community are Trumpsters and it makes me insane. I do however believe in the 2nd amendment, and I'll gladly take any of my allies to the range and show them how to safely and effectively use any of the firearms tat I own and practice with every weekend. I've been in 2 physical fights in Walmart because of conservative bullies taking their shit out on LGBTQ+ people and I'll gladly defend them every day of the week. You don't have to agree with my position on firearms, but I'll defend your life with mine.


    Kinda rambled a little bit there, but main takeaway is fuck these christian companies that are being allowed to do what they're doing. So much for separation of church and state.

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