l o l
...is the most appropriate thing to say, because you gotta laugh at the absurdity of some in this bubble of a virtual world, and because it looks like a person drowning and hey, aren't we all drowning on the inside~*~*~*~
tldr; you could say the reason shit's gotten Out of Hand is bc it feels personal for people at both ends of the debacle - not only the guide owners, but also the people in the community who use the guide. i hope one day they understand this if they don't already - that it's not just /their/ feelings to be considered. nor are they the ~villians~ in this case either, but just people subject to the inherent pitfalls that come with running a value guide, as well as impulsive & selfish decisions on their own part.
I.
whether we voice it explicitly to them or not, i'd guess that everyone appreciates shannon & vicky for the time they spent on the guide.
for a little over a year, /~korolie was king. they did a good job, too. better than /~clara, by which i don't mean as an affront to serene - it helps to have two people to keep updates both as regular and impartial as possible, plus vicky combed boards for trades which was like w o w to me when i first heard about it, you get 'em girl - but to illustrate that they weren't merely doing the job, but doing a good job too.
running a guide might be fun at first, but it's a terrible job in the long run lol. it's never enough because there's always going to be one or two idiots who think the ~values come from nowhere~ (ignorant of the systemic reality of collecting and representing data), or that guide owners should do this! and that! and be at everyone's beck and call 24/7. it's hard for people who are natural people-pleasers, and who feel a pull to do things for the community, to have to over and over again come to terms with how you can never please everyone.
the thing to keep in mind though? it's only a small minority: it really is just one or two idiots lol.
meanwhile, more people - and various people, not just a few who are actually rude - might mention on random discussion boards that crop up that values here and there seem off. "i see lots of people seeking xyz and no one ever trading it; is it really still at # now?" and the like.
at first, i was like whaaaat at how they basically shut down discussion boards. about values. that exist. FOR EVERYONE. like geez, did you get stung by a bee and have an allergic reaction to discussion??? because to 99% of us, it's all just casual, brainstormy, more-interesting-than-the-usual-crap-on-the-NCC discussion.
but after reflecting on what a guide-maker's job is, and how much influence they really have over the values - thinking about what it's like to be a guide maker reading discussions you can't control, about values that you can't control, i think (although i definitely disagree with their actions) i see where they're coming from when they crack down on a public topic like a military crackdown by the government lol.
there are two positions - the person saying something of that sort about how a certain value seems off, and the helpless guide maker who most cruically can't just change the value at a whim, because they're attached to the death rope by the limited data they have at hand, as well as the systemic way of updating values needed to run a community guide.
when you're hesistant about things already: whether an item should have this as the value or not, like squinting at the data collected for lace curtain garland, and thinking hmm that seems a bit low, it makes sense that even feedback-y comments can be frustrating. a system exists: record trades, update values on the guide based on the data, and you can't break from it lest face the wrath of accused partiality.
you're essentially stuck, and people saying "xyz should be more like #" is about as useful, and ends up about as well-received, as someone saying "hey buddy, you're sinking in quicksand, you might want to do something about it..."
shannon has said that even though they realize it's unintended, not only is the end result frustrating, but it also feels personal.
at first, reading her post, i was like... ??? but why??? it's just item values...?
but now, thinking about how a guide is the brainchild of one's intensive efforts (at least, a guide like the way /~korolie ran required intensive effort) - best efforts - and updated through the hectic times, good times, bad times of one's life, it begins to make sense to me why any comment that hints toward the guides' imperfections (and there are obviously bound to be some, and there are obviously going to be discussion boards about items & values) feels like a personal criticism.
II.
it didn't bother me when the guide got pulled down - their petpage, after all. pull it down without warning, welp that's rather dramatic, but don't have a reason other than "hey i want it!" for which to defend my case.
it's perhaps the more subtle things that are distasteful - and by that, i mean kind of hurtful to us all.
now, i, a random trader on the NCC who's never said anything negative to you about the guide, feel like a bad person. what did i do wrong? 
like when they put that image up with the slorg & slogan, "NCC, we have a problem". and when they made that board just now, "look at what you made us do". and when they talk over and over again how 'some people', 'you people', 'the ungratefulness of people', etc. ignoring all the people who did express their gratitude when the guide was taken down. ignoring how, the very people reading those words, some of them have posted *heart* on your appreciation board, and some of them have publicly defended you guys.
like dangg, a lot of us have traded with you, reported values into /~korolie because we think the guide does a good job and we want it to continue, and now it seems like YOU GUYS ARE ALL UNGRATEFUL. and i know it's not supposed to be directed at 100% everyone on the NCC, but they made no distinction that it isn't supposed to be; and i know it's not supposed to be personal, but that's what it kind of feels like.
III.
personally, i don't think it's ridiculous to the nth power for shannon to ask for values to not be copy & pasted from /~korolie. i've tinkered in my mind back and forth with the idea of creating a guide, and even if this wasn't an issue of contention, i might have already preferred to start from scratch. but i don't think that's the thing pushing them to like, not let people take the old values - the sense of "this is the work we put into representing values!" and the idea that it's, like, morally or philosophically or lawfully wrong to use the values lol.
because more so, and maybe i'm extrapolating, i'd surmise it to a feeling of we don't want you, ANY of you, to have this. we want you to be worse off than you were before! because they're unhappy with the way things have turned out on the boards.
it feels like some kind of Punishment they meant to enact on all of us. "hah, this is what you get for not being nice enough to us! feel the wrath of the Mighty Power we have over you guys!"
...which is, on their part, not the nicest or fairest thing to do. actually, that's an understatement. i really hate how they're purposely trying to do everyone a disservice, when previously 99% of people had shown nothing BUT gratitude toward them, and suddenly we're all lumped into this axis of evil l o l.
IV.
they're asking for people to consider their side of things, while ignoring the other side themselves. on top of that, repeatedly calling us ungrateful, disgusting, etc... which doesn't make me me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. 
idk man, idk.
the reason they're upset is because things feel personal, but hey, the door swings the other way too.
although they're overall nice people, and this is just one event in their lives. that's another thing; i hold shannon & vicky to high regards. (like really, kudos for running a value guide & devoting so much time to the community for so long.) but i guess, like values attempted to be captured on guides, people too are subject to falling short of the ideal every now and then.
there are two types of people on the internet: those who've dealt with online mobs taking their pitchforks out and making fun of them, and those who haven't.
...and i belong to the group that hasn't, but i can imagine that it's not fun haha. and that it ruins your day and clouds your mind when you're on that site for the next short while. i hope they don't feel bad about all this - well, obviously they do, but i hope they feel better and they can get back into the swing of things on the ncc, and that everything rolls over soon.
Originally Posted by Bettser
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