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Thread: Assisted suicide. Murder, or mercy?

  1. #1
    Synth Salazzle's Avatar
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    Assisted suicide. Murder, or mercy?

    This seems like a pretty controversial topic, and I like sparking up debate; so why don't we just jump right into it?

    Personally, I feel like it should be for extreme cases, where the person has no chance of avoiding a painful death. Not for everyone who just feels suicidal. It should be used sparingly after exhausting every potential option of treatment.

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    Aura's Avatar
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    I agree with your opinion, and I believe someone should have the right to die as they wish, especially if all other options have been explored and exhausted. There's no reason for someone to have to live their life when they're constantly in agonizing pain, waiting to die.
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  4. #3
    AyBeCee's Avatar
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    For me, yes, definitely euthanasia is the way to go. To put it in a cliche, there are some fates worse than death. There's a bunch of diseases that can be downright nightmare fuel, like locked-in syndrome.

    I'm talking mostly in the medical context, since I am currently studying in that field. Every patient has the right to autonomy. They choose what they want to be done with their bodies. In less extreme cases, we'd be talking about giving consent for divulging their medical history or consenting to medical investigations like blood tests, ECG, etc. But it also includes consenting to more serious stuff like surgeries, chemotherapy, etc. For example, if someone had a fatal medication condition, they might want to decide between another 5 years of relative comfort vs another 10 years of constant discomfort.

    I don't see why it should be any different when it comes to assisted suicide. If someone would rather die than live the rest of their life in agony, then I believe it's morally unethical (and personally, I'd go even far to say cruel) to deny them that right. Of course, the patient would have to undergo a series of trials to determine their eligibility for euthanasia, and to see if there is no other option which they would prefer.

    A bit of a ramble, but I'm passionate about this topic.

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  6. #4
    Katie Mama Bear's Avatar
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    One of the key factors for me, and one that always makes the thorniest problems with the topic of euthanasia, is informed consent. I agree that someone should be able to make well-informed choices about their own lives and bodies, with things like cool-down periods in place to ensure that the patient has time to fully consider the implications of their choice, not just because they were having one particularly bad day. It's much harder when it is instances of people who are not able (either due to unconsciousness or intellectual disability) to make that choice themselves. I remember the Terry Schiavo case getting a lot of attention when I was in high school. It was an example of a patient being in a persistent vegetative state having their feeding tube removed; the patient's husband and parents were divided about what should happen. You start talking about valuing life versus considering quality of life. It can become a slippery slope, because without informed consent who are we to make that decision for someone else, and say that their life isn't worth continuing?

    Not a human example, but when my sausage dog Rasputin became paralysed we were told that euthanasia was something we should seriously consider, as he was going to need substantial care for the rest of his life. My husband and I made the call that we would revisit the topic if/when he seemed to be suffering. Despite being a little cripple dog who had no control over his bladder/bowels and wasn't able to move around, he was still happy and loving. In the end we were able to rehabilitate him with physiotherapy- he can't jump and walks with a limp, but we gave him the chance and he took it. That said, his vet called his case a miracle. There are definitely more instances where recovery doesn't happen than those that do, for animals and humans alike.

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  8. #5
    Stocking Anarchy's Avatar
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    Hell yes everyone should have the right to die. maybe this is going a bit extreme but I think we should have a euthanasia option included in the do not resuscitate paperwork as well.

    My reason for such is because here in Oregon we do allow death with dignity. But this is something that takes many months/years to get approved. It is a preplanned death.

    Not everyone has the means or the time to plan out euthanasia. Allowing a human being to die "naturally" in a hospital bed is horrific. Your family is sitting around you while your body lies in a medical induced coma so they don't have to see your body go through seizures. And they just sit there, and wait, and wait, and wait till you starve to death, suffocate, or your organs begin to fail. And the longer it takes for your body to die, the higher those medical bills are racking up for the bed, the drugs to keep you quiet, etc.

    Or if you have no end of life insurance or choose hospice at home, then hope that the morphine is delivered on time. My aunt told me that for over 12 hours my great grandmother was in intense pain because the nurse that was supposed to deliver the morphine/administer it at the house never showed up and they had to wait for the next dose.

    When there is no treatment or option other than to "make him comfortable," I think it should have been the choice of the patient, or those that have the power to make medical decisions on their behalf, on having that option available to them.


    Whenever I think on this debate it reminds me of my friend Reggie and her husband Karl

    He had a heart attack at his job, and no one at work did cpr on him, and the defibrillator at the plant didn't work, so he went 15 minutes without oxygen to his brain.

    When EMT arrived they started CPR and his heart started right back up, beating on its own. But because his brain was deprived of oxygen for so long, there was too much damage. They had him in a medically induced coma because if they didn't then his body would begin to have violent seizures.

    When I sat with my friend Reggie, as she had her children around her, I saw that what had made her husband "Karl" was gone. He was on life support for about two weeks, and Reggie had to make the decision of removing life support. Her youngest son I think was about 12 at the time, and she spoke with all of them to make sure they agreed with the decision before she gave the go ahead. And even after taking him off of life support I think it took him 3 days to finally die.







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  10. #6
    Hubble's Avatar
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    Forgive my wall of text, but if you read everything you'll understand.

    The way I see it and my opinion, is I didn't ask to be brought into this world, so I should have the right to leave it if I want to.

    Especially if I have a chronic condition that results in constant pain and suffering for the rest of my life.

    It's kind of a double-edged sword in some cases, for instance people who have a chronic disease or condition that is lifelong with no cure.

    Schizophrenia, is one that comes to mind for me because I suffer from it and know what it's like.

    -

    On one hand, you have somebody who believes with their whole heart that say, the world is 'out to get them', and people want to hurt them, and nobody likes them, and everybody around them is constantly deceiving and lying to them, and they feel completely and totally hopeless, helpless and alone in the world. (I am talking about paranoid Schizophrenia) Which, is 'treatable', yes, but not 'curable' - I find the whole 'treatable' or 'curable' thing kind of BS for certain conditions such as Schizophrenia. Doctors and research will say something is 'treatable', as in your symptoms will not go away but they will 'get better' and 'won't be as severe' - yet at the same time you'll have them for the rest of your life, that doesn't make sense to me, there is no 'kind of' paranoid or 'kind of' hopeless, either you're paranoid or you're not. I believe the reason assisted suicide is frowned upon by most (specifically doctors) is so they can keep you medicated and make a profit off you through the medications they give you for the rest of your life. But anyways, either you're hopeless or you're not. Either you're paranoid or you're not. At least, that's the way I feel. I'm never 'kind of' paranoid that people around me are constantly trying to intentionally upset or annoy me; I'm never 'kind of' paranoid that nobody likes me, I'm never 'kind of' paranoid I'm going to reach a dead end no matter where I go or what I do in life; no, it's 100% - 100% of the time, not 50-50.

    Yet, on the other hand, it's just a mental disorder - these things that the person believes to be true, actually aren't, but to them, they are - so they are living in a world of hopeless despair not knowing any better, you could say they are living in a sort of... personal Hell. But again, this person just has a mental disorder, the world isn't actually out to get them, people aren't actually trying to hurt them, but they believe this 110%. So what do you do? What do they do? They don't know any better because they have a lifelong mental disorder that (in most cases) is incurable, so they're always going to be living in this 'personal Hell'... Kind of unfair and wrong to force them to continue living in such conditions, that they didn't choose to have, but yet the dilemma comes into play where like I previously stated it's just a mental disorder, the beliefs actually aren't real or true.

    Like I said, I myself suffer from paranoid Schizophrenia and borderline bi-polar personality disorder. (So I don't know, my post here may be a little biased or skewed, but if anything it comes from an educated intent and source) I've been officially diagnosed and put on medications for it. The doctors keep telling me, "Oh, it's not curable, but oh don't give up hope you can manage it, you can live with your symptoms it'll get better." First off, that's pretty shitty to force or tell someone they have to live in constant fear and pain and suffering, and second off, I have done the research myself, I've sat up countless endless nights for years now looking into cures and how it works, it is not curable (in 9/10 cases) and the symptoms are lifelong. I keep hearing from the doctors and reading that it is 'treatable' and my symptoms will 'get better' - but like I said previously, I don't see a grey area of something like a mental disorder or disease such as this, either you're paranoid or you're not, there's no 'kind of' paranoid, there's no 'kind of'' thinking that the world is against you or someone wants to hurt you, or that everyone is constantly deceiving and lying to you. I'm not going to 'kind of' think that my next door neighbor or my family and friends are plotting against me, no, either I'm going to believe it or I'm not.

    That being said, and how it relates to this subject, I will admit yes there are times where I feel like my life ending would be an end to all the pain and 'personal Hell' that I go through every second of every day, why wouldn't it? The dead know nothing. When you're dead, that's it, you're dead, there's no pain, there's no suffering, that is, if you believe you won't go to Hell anyways for committing suicide (if you believe in certain religions). But then at the same time there's the 1/10 chance that it could be cured some day, so why give up what very little amount of hope I have when there is a small chance things will change? But then again, that's what they say, and it could be just like I said so they can milk you for money for your medications and therapy for the rest of your life. But, you're faced with kind of a dilemma there. You could just end it all, and feel and be nothing but a rotting dead corpse, or you could live with the symptoms (most likely for the rest of your life) and be in a 'personal Hell' anyway... I feel people who have mental disorders/diseases like this are just born with the short end of the stick, for lack of a better term. They are either born with the condition, or predisposed to the condition that is lifelong, end up developing it, and have no choice but to suffer and be in a lose-lose situation as long as they live.

    All that being said, I still think that assisted suicide should be legal for certain conditions and diseases.

    But now you could interject religion and religious beliefs here of-course - I'm talking about how you go to 'Hell' if you kill yourself, (I believe the term [kill yourself] applies to you yourself actually doing the deed as-well as somebody else doing the deed [assisted suicide]) but that would just make your God that you believe in look bad and sort of contradict itself. What kind of loving and caring and compassionate and etc. all-powerful God would make somebody go through a 'personal Hell' - by not ending their own life and living life with a mental disorder that they can't control - to get to Heaven? What kind of God would give them this condition in the first place? Again, people with such chronic conditions are in a lose-lose situation, they end their life by committing suicide, they go to Hell for all of eternity. They live through their mental disorder and are the 9/10 statistic of not being cured and go through a lifetime of 'personal Hell' - not very fair when they were born with a condition that makes them feel like they're already in Hell, or they go to Hell either way.

    And I'm just using Schizophrenia as an example that I go through, Schizophrenia isn't even the worst disease or condition or mental illness or whatever category you want to use out there, there are far worse disorders and illnesses that people have to live with, their whole life, and it doesn't seem very fair or loving to me. At all.

    But while writing this the saying "In order to appreciate the good you have to experience the bad" kind of pops into my head. So, perhaps you have to go through Hell to get to Heaven? At least, that's what I'd like to believe. But again, in the Bible, the Christian Bible at least, I don't know about other religions, it says that all of your memories of Earth will be gone and you will be reborn in Heaven, you will not see your family or friends, you will not have your Earthly belongings, so what you do and go through on this Earth, really doesn't matter 'in the end' (and not to attack or mock the Christian religion, but that seems kind of like brainwashing to me. You live a life on Earth, whether painful or not, and all your memories and everything are just wiped away and you're a 'new person' in Heaven. Kinda makes life on Earth seem pointless in every sense to me, unrelated to other areas that may call for labelling life as pointless).

    I don't mean to attack, or sound sarcastic or snarky about any religion, nor do I mean to bring religion into this whole subject in the first place, but it's kind of hard not to when dealing with the subject of suicide, because in the Bible it strictly says that, unless you repent and truly ask for and want forgiveness for your sin(s), murder, in this case - which although all sins are 'mortal' sins and can be forgiven, is one of the worst sins a human can commit - you go to Hell. So when you commit suicide, you're killing yourself, and you cannot ask for forgiveness because, well, you're dead. So you go to Hell if you commit suicide, and suffer for all of eternity, or on the other hand, you live a life of 'personal Hell' and see no end, or hope or light in the darkness, and you have no control over it because you were born with or developed a chronic lifelong, mind-altering condition.

    I'd love to whole-heartedly believe that things aren't fabricated against me and that the world isn't 'against me' - why wouldn't I? I don't and didn't choose to suffer every second of every day, most likely, for the rest of my life, due to a mental illness that I have no control over - but I have a chronic condition that skews my perception of things around me, so although you may say I have 'insight' into the whole ordeal and I can recognize to some extent that I just have a mental illness, I will never believe otherwise and I will always have a cement belief that people are 'out to get me' and are 'against me'. There is no grey area where I think otherwise, so essentially I'm in that lose-lose situation I mentioned earlier - if I kill myself I go to Hell, while at the same time if I keep living my life I'm already in a 'personal Hell' I guess the only difference is that one is for eternity and the isn't? But then again, that contradicts a loving, caring, compassionate and all-powerful God - why would a God make you go through Hell to get to Heaven - most especially when all of your memories and belongings on Earth will not carry over with you. I don't know, it's all kind of a paradox and sort of dilemma to me.

    The only thing that's keeping me away from suicide honestly is my dad. While on one hand I have the skewed perception and belief that he, along with all 7 billion other people on Earth are 'against me' etc. etc. - I still have that small little voice and 0.1% belief that I'm wrong, I just have a mental illness, and he loves me, and that if I killed myself he would be losing his only son that he has now - and I love him, so I don't want to hurt him. Hell, I cut myself and I could tell he was very hurt, so I can't imagine how it would make him feel if I flat out killed myself. So I guess where I'm going with this, is even if you have a chronic, lifelong condition that makes you feel like you are in a 'personal Hell' - just don't give up man.

    I'm not going to hit you with that stupid BS cliche of "oh it gets better nyah nyah nyah" because sure for some people it might get better, and it may help them get through a struggle, but the reality of it is, for some people things don't get better. So instead of using that cliche, I will say that even if you have no-one, (I'm lucky enough to have my dad) even if you have nothing but the clothes on your back, you still have yourself at bare minimum, and I believe that is the biggest struggle in this world for a lot of people, learning to love and live with themselves. If you can learn to love and live with yourself, all other problems are bugs on the windshield, and learning to love and live with yourself are your wipers

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  12. #7


    haiqtpi's Avatar
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    There are obviously different approaches to take on the issue, but if an individual wants to die, who are we to say no? One thing that pushed me away from clinical psychology and psychiatry was the idea that suicide or the desire to die are "abnormal." I never could accept that idea, and I just left the field. While it may be true that many of us experience moments where we "want to die," we can agree that most of the time, that time passes--ie suicide is seen as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Sure, it can be a mistake which you cannot come back from--but who cares? I get that suicide affects others--loved ones, friends, etc, but I view this as incredibly selfish. How is it more right to keep someone alive against their wishes because you are afraid of being hurt or affected by their death? The human mind is so incredibly complex and you can never really be inside of another person's head. You hate hurting, no? Why would you force someone to endure because you think that suicide is "wrong?" Ill also point out that throughout human history, suicide has been incredibly common--perhaps slightly less so with the rise of Christianity, but it has never gone away.

    If anything, assisted suicide allows someone to die with more dignity, and saves loved ones from even more gruesome sights and realities if you did it yourself. Assisted suicide also allows for closure--there are conversations and others involved, if anything, this allows someone adequate time to change their mind, if that is what you are worried about. I hate how people are so interested in what happens in people's bedrooms, bathrooms, and now, desires to live/die.

    TLDL; I do not care if you have terminal illness or just want to kill yourself--I do not see a reason why assisted suicide should be viewed as murder
    Queen Bee

  13. #8
    Charmander's Avatar
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    With working in healthcare and seeing multiple individuals with varying injuries/illnesses I personally am on board with Medical Assisted Dying. Where I live Medical Assisted Dying became legal last year, you just need to find a doctor who is willing to do itv. I have always thought that if I were in these individual's shoes I personally would not want to be confined to an ICU bed as my family watches me die. I would not want to be in the hospital or secured care unit with Alzheimer's/Dementia and hurt my family when I cannot remember them or have outbreaks. I would like to exit the world on my own terms instead of waiting for a disease to ultimately take me.

    I feel that if an individual with a chronic degenerative illness such as ALS, MS, Alzheimers/Dementia etc should have the ability to decide if they want to continue on when their quality of life has deteriorated so much. However, I feel like a process needs to be in place where the individual is consistent with their decision to end their life. For example, a set statement in a Living Will/End of Life Plan/Goals of Medical Care stating that specifics on if their abilities/health deteriorated to a specific point that they would want Medical Assisted Dying. This is especially important for those who end up with Dementia/Alzheimer's later in life as doing this once diagnosed may be more difficult and same for the next part I will mention. In addition I think multiple sessions with an MD/Psychiatrist to ensure that this in indeed what the individual wants. I don't think it should be a decision that is made on a whim.

  14. #9

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    yes, i absolutely think assisted suicide/ euthanasia should be an option.
    my grandma wasted away for 3 months after we knew the cancer was terminal, and she suffered so much.
    if death is unavoidable, i think it should be an option. it would be more humane than letting someone die slowly.

    also i'd like to think that if i ever woke up from an accident and i was paralyzed from the neck down, someone would put me out.

  15. #10

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    As someone who works in Hospice, death with dignity (I think assisted suicide and euthanasia undermine) is a basic human right.

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