Donald Trump's Banning Transgender People From Serving - Right or Wrong?

[Aura]

Donald Trump posted on Twitter today that transgender people will not be permitted to serve in the military:

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What are your guys' opinion on this? Is he right in this decision, or is it discrimination towards the minority group?
I don't believe he's right to do this. To assume that all transgender people aren't fit to serve is discrimination, in my opinion. This lumps the entire group together and doesn't show any exceptions. What if there are transgender people who aren't on medication, if the fact that they need medication could be an argument? There may be some people with mental/physical issues, but that does come with any group of people.

Let me just say this now, personal attacks, flaming, and harassment of any kind won't be tolerated. If you disagree with someone, keep it civil and don't start calling each other names.

[Urbex]

I disagree with keeping them out of the service, if ANYBODY wants to serve our country, they should be allowed to do so.
However, I am very against the military having to pay for transgender surgeries and medical costs. My taxpayer dollars shouldn't have to cover your optional/elective surgery, your own health insurance or pocket should be paying. We need to cut back our military spending, not increase it.

[Daviid]

The only reason I see to do that would be, if anything, some people feeling uncomfortable about shower time? I don't know.

As far as I know there are already women in the military, and at some point there was a vote to require women to register for the draft.
So what extra spending?

As long as the person in question passes all tests and all those necessary things to enter the military, why the hell care if the person in question is man woman transgender furry or apache helicopter.

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[Cybun]

To put it simply

- If they're transitioning:
No

- After full transition, if they don't need to take hormones or spend hours "dilating" and are screened like everyone else:
Yes

[Mindfang]

To put it simply

- If they're transitioning:
No

- After full transition, if they don't need to take hormones or spend hours "dilating" and are screened like everyone else:
Yes

the thing about this though is you never really "stop" transitioning. you dont just stop having to take hormones, and if you do, you'll start detransitioning (some are lucky and dont have this happen, but ive been off hrt for a year for health reasons and ive since started having periods/my voice is getting a little lighter/my hips and thighs are more pronounced and "feminine"), and just getting surgery doesnt mean youre automatically fully trans. theres no end to your transition.

so in saying this, youre essentially saying that trans people shouldnt be in the military... i know thats not what you said, and im not intentionally putting words in your mouth, im just pointing out that, for a majority if not all of trans people, theres no end to transition and so under your choices they wouldnt be allowed in the military.

do you mean top/bottom surgery and living full-time, 100% read as their gender? what if they dont want one of those surgeries (another personal example: i want a hysterectomy, but in order to do that, the nhs is insisting i get full bottom surgery to get a penis, which i 100% dont want because theres no One Surgery for dfab people getting penises, its a constant run to and from hospital to get changes done until you have a sort of sub-par looking cock, and the bottom (HEH) line is i wouldnt be comfortable with one / i have a trans woman friend whos comfortable with her penis for the same reasons)? what of people who cant afford to transition, or cant because of their living situation? my trans friend was recently discharged from the military after 3 months of boot camp because it came out that he wasnt a cis female like they assumed, and also he lives with depression (biggest reason for discharge, but they did mention the gender thing while discharging him). Because he wasnt "fully male", he wasnt allowed to continue training for the military, but if he transitions at home, his transphobic parents will disown him, and he cant afford the basic care for trans people thats necessary to transition on his own.

so in those cases what then?

[Cybun]

the thing about this though is you never really "stop" transitioning. you dont just stop having to take hormones, and if you do, you'll start detransitioning (some are lucky and dont have this happen, but ive been off hrt for a year for health reasons and ive since started having periods/my voice is getting a little lighter/my hips and thighs are more pronounced and "feminine"), and just getting surgery doesnt mean youre automatically fully trans. theres no end to your transition.

so in saying this, youre essentially saying that trans people shouldnt be in the military... i know thats not what you said, and im not intentionally putting words in your mouth, im just pointing out that, for a majority if not all of trans people, theres no end to transition and so under your choices they wouldnt be allowed in the military.

do you mean top/bottom surgery and living full-time, 100% read as their gender? what if they dont want one of those surgeries (another personal example: i want a hysterectomy, but in order to do that, the nhs is insisting i get full bottom surgery to get a penis, which i 100% dont want because theres no One Surgery for dfab people getting penises, its a constant run to and from hospital to get changes done until you have a sort of sub-par looking cock, and the bottom (HEH) line is i wouldnt be comfortable with one / i have a trans woman friend whos comfortable with her penis for the same reasons)? what of people who cant afford to transition, or cant because of their living situation? my trans friend was recently discharged from the military after 3 months of boot camp because it came out that he wasnt a cis female like they assumed, and also he lives with depression (biggest reason for discharge, but they did mention the gender thing while discharging him). Because he wasnt "fully male", he wasnt allowed to continue training for the military, but if he transitions at home, his transphobic parents will disown him, and he cant afford the basic care for trans people thats necessary to transition on his own.

so in those cases what then?

That depends on a few things then, like how disruptive is it to take hormones? How often do they need to do it? Can they afford not taking them for weeks to months if they're deployed and the military can't/won't provide them? Will the meds be taking up space that could be used for something more useful?
By fully transitioning I didn't mean they HAVE to have the surgery, but IF they had the surgery to make sure they don't have to do extra tasks that can be a nuisance if they're deployed (like the dilating part for MTF), I think what they have between their legs are of little use if what matters is if they're capable of doing their job. I know very little about the meds trans people have to take so I'm not sure if I'm talking crap and I apologize if I am cause my knowledge about this group of people is teeny-tiny.

I'm not entirely sure how it works for the military, but gender dysphoria here is considered a mental illness which immediately disqualifies someone from enlisting, I also heard that some medications they take may cause mood swings and other side effects that are a no-no if someone is serving but I don't know if it's true, just thought I'd throw this in here if someone knows more about it.
And if I think a little deeper it doesn't matter what the person identifies as, if they're FTM and are at a disadvantage physically they won't be given a free pass because that just wouldn't be very fair, as long as they can perform their tasks successfully and the military won't have any extra trouble with them then I believe they're free to serve! There's just a lot to consider beforehand.

[Mindfang]

That depends on a few things then, like how disruptive is it to take hormones? How often do they need to do it? Can they afford not taking them for weeks to months if they're deployed and the military can't/won't provide them? Will the meds be taking up space that could be used for something more useful?
By fully transitioning I didn't mean they HAVE to have the surgery, but IF they had the surgery to make sure they don't have to do extra tasks that can be a nuisance if they're deployed (like the dilating part for MTF), I think what they have between their legs are of little use if what matters is if they're capable of doing their job. I know very little about the meds trans people have to take so I'm not sure if I'm talking crap and I apologize if I am cause my knowledge about this group of people is teeny-tiny.

I'm not entirely sure how it works for the military, but gender dysphoria here is considered a mental illness which immediately disqualifies someone from enlisting, I also heard that some medications they take may cause mood swings and other side effects that are a no-no if someone is serving but I don't know if it's true, just thought I'd throw this in here if someone knows more about it.
And if I think a little deeper it doesn't matter what the person identifies as, if they're FTM and are at a disadvantage physically they won't be given a free pass because that just wouldn't be very fair, as long as they can perform their tasks successfully and the military won't have any extra trouble with them then I believe they're free to serve! There's just a lot to consider beforehand.

i suppose this goes to you and everyone talking about dysphoria etc.

hormones arent that much of an issue. you can go months/weeks without them and wont face any adverse affects. i cant speak for oestrogen, but i can speak for testosterone injections and say that, at most, you get a sore ass for a few days after the injection. will that stop a trained soldier from working? not at all. will going off hormones be a bit unpleasant? yes, definitely. will it completely incapacitate that trained soldier so that theyre whining about dysphoria and unable to function due to the oppressive depression? fuck no.

and thats the thing about all of this: trans people arent miserable all the time. do you really think a trans person would sign up for the military if they knew they werent 100% capable due to their dysphoria? and besides: the dysphoria usually comes with being unable to transition, be it due to lack of funds, dangerous home life, being too young, stuff like that. usually thats what brings about the depression. if a trans person has access to these things, youll find their risk of suicide and depression becomes non existent.

and for the record, theres barely any trans people that are completely incapacitated by their dysphoria to the point where they cannot work. you see the thing about being unable to work as a trans person, is the discrimination. being unable to transition, feeling dysphoric, being depressed, it usually all comes around due to the current state of trans issues in the world, and the fact that theyre discriminated against. and also this idea that were all so delicate and cry uncle at the slightest sign of oppression: are you serious? why is it, then, that cis people are constantly so quick to tell us how brave we are for transitioning? are we only brave on your terms? is our strength really not that impressive to you at all despite your words then? are we strong and brave or arent we? and if we are, isnt that what being in the military is all about?

transitioning is a big deal for trans people, but it isnt as big a deal as its being made out to be here. it wont kill you, it wont make you unable to work. even the dilating is simple! you can do that in the bathroom before or after you go pee in the morning! you can give yourself injections-- and theres more than just injections when it comes to hormone intake. you can get a gel that you rub into your skin if youre a trans man, or you can take a pill if youre a trans woman. another thing you can do in the morning that takes maybe 2 minutes.

[I_royalty_I]

i suppose this goes to you and everyone talking about dysphoria etc.

hormones arent that much of an issue. you can go months/weeks without them and wont face any adverse affects. i cant speak for oestrogen, but i can speak for testosterone injections and say that, at most, you get a sore ass for a few days after the injection. will that stop a trained soldier from working? not at all. will going off hormones be a bit unpleasant? yes, definitely. will it completely incapacitate that trained soldier so that theyre whining about dysphoria and unable to function due to the oppressive depression? fuck no.

and thats the thing about all of this: trans people arent miserable all the time. do you really think a trans person would sign up for the military if they knew they werent 100% capable due to their dysphoria? and besides: the dysphoria usually comes with being unable to transition, be it due to lack of funds, dangerous home life, being too young, stuff like that. usually thats what brings about the depression. if a trans person has access to these things, youll find their risk of suicide and depression becomes non existent.

and for the record, theres barely any trans people that are completely incapacitated by their dysphoria to the point where they cannot work. you see the thing about being unable to work as a trans person, is the discrimination. being unable to transition, feeling dysphoric, being depressed, it usually all comes around due to the current state of trans issues in the world, and the fact that theyre discriminated against. and also this idea that were all so delicate and cry uncle at the slightest sign of oppression: are you serious? why is it, then, that cis people are constantly so quick to tell us how brave we are for transitioning? are we only brave on your terms? is our strength really not that impressive to you at all despite your words then? are we strong and brave or arent we? and if we are, isnt that what being in the military is all about?

transitioning is a big deal for trans people, but it isnt as big a deal as its being made out to be here. it wont kill you, it wont make you unable to work. even the dilating is simple! you can do that in the bathroom before or after you go pee in the morning! you can give yourself injections-- and theres more than just injections when it comes to hormone intake. you can get a gel that you rub into your skin if youre a trans man, or you can take a pill if youre a trans woman. another thing you can do in the morning that takes maybe 2 minutes.

You mention those things happen partly due to being unable to properly transition. Under Obama, the pentagon was required to pay for these expenses. I'm sure there are folks who signed up simply to reap this benefit because we all know anything having to do with health care can be very pricey. I'm sure that's not the case for all though.

There are other issues to worry about too. The harshness of war leads soldiers to see some pretty insane things. Even the strongest, toughest folks can crack. They might seem fine one minute, then break down the next. That's the reality though. If you're already feeling that way, perhaps stepping into a battle zone wouldn't be the best. There were statistics put out that I read, before all this, where if one member of your group commits suicide, the chances of another from the same group go up quite a bit. War is just nasty. Having somebody already prone to those kinds of thoughts can be dangerous. That's why they already reject people who fall into that kind of category.

The one thing I will say is that not all roles involve being on the battlefield. Some roles put you behind a screen or researching this or that. For those I'm sure exceptions could be made. The only issue is that once one exception is made, somebody will always want another to be made. It's just a lot to consider and I feel like this decision was kind of sprung on everyone. Even the heads of the military branches were said to be surprised. That's coming from CNN so who honestly knows lol.

[RavenInfini]

He's an idiot in general. Paying for their surgeries is different. That's a personal issue they should fund themselves since it's not life or death. Anyone who is mentally stable and in decent health should be able to serve.

[I_royalty_I]

I know one of the primary reasons for this decision, like @(you need an account to see links) stated, is because most of the time the military is looked at to cover the costs of operations/treatments and such. Previously, the policies under Obama required the government to pay for all medical treatments. Perhaps if they took that stipulation away, then things would be fine.

I don't think it has anything to do with an individuals ability to properly serve their country. The transgender people who are already in the military, im not sure what's going to happen there. Not sure of all the details right now. I can't say that I entirely support or oppose this decision at the moment. I guess we will see how it ends up working out.