Ask LGBT+ people anything!

[champloo]

If you were threatened/oppressed for years and suddenly had the chance to be as flamboyant/unfiltered/the real you as you wanted, wouldn't you take the opportunity?
Especially transgender people (specifically trans women) are constantly living their lives in fear, are threatened repeatedly by transphobic people.
The amount of hate and harm that falls onto the laps of people genuinely just trying to be themselves is unbelievable. The amount of suicide and hate crimes.. it's fucked.
Keep in mind these are human beings with real emotions just trying to be comfortable in their own skin.

These parades/events finally give a SAFE place for these people to be themselves. They can wear the skirt that makes them feel pretty without feeling unsafe or judged.
I don't think anyone really has the right to speculate or question whether or not these parades are necessary? Feeling safe is necessary, avoiding hate crimes is necessary.
Even if it's only for a single day, or whatever, it's relief knowing you can go out dressed however you want, be whoever you really are without potentially being hurt.

Just my opinion.

"The real you?" Not every homosexual person is flamboyant. To imply that this is the "real" version of every gay person, or even most of them, is very offensive.

Compare it to straight people. How many straight people do you know would happily run around in a parade, half-naked and doing suggestive things? Not very many. It's the same for gays; they'd like to be respected, but a few bad eggs are putting on a terrible show.

Also, transexuals have a high suicide statistic (you need an account to see links). To imply they're all so sensitive is, again, very offensive.

[Curse]

"The real you?" Not every homosexual person is flamboyant. To imply that this is the "real" version of every gay person, or even most of them, is very offensive.

Compare it to straight people. How many straight people do you know would happily run around in a parade, half-naked and doing suggestive things? Not very many. It's the same for gays; they'd like to be respected, but a few bad eggs are putting on a terrible show.

Also, transexuals have a high suicide statistic (you need an account to see links). To imply they're all so sensitive is, again, very offensive.

k

[Mama Bear]

"The real you?" Not every homosexual person is flamboyant. To imply that this is the "real" version of every gay person, or even most of them, is very offensive.

Compare it to straight people. How many straight people do you know would happily run around in a parade, half-naked and doing suggestive things? Not very many. It's the same for gays; they'd like to be respected, but a few bad eggs are putting on a terrible show.

Also, transexuals have a high suicide statistic (you need an account to see links). To imply they're all so sensitive is, again, very offensive.

Did you actually read the article from the Journal of New England medicine that your link bastardises? The Federalist article would have you believe it supports the idea that transgender people are inherently mentally ill, and that is the crux of their problem. The JNEM article is actually making the point that rather than just focusing on the issue of bathroom discrimination, the transgender community would benefit more from having greater access to health care that supports them. It's an article about the need for inclusivity in the health care sector. Suicide is mentioned once in the text:

Beyond bathroom accessibility, discrimination is associated with increased stress, anxiety, depressive symptoms, post-traumatic stress disorder, substance abuse, and suicide. It is also associated with increased risk of bullying, verbal harassment, sexual assault, and nonsexual violence, as well as decreased health care utilization.

[champloo]

Did you actually read the article from the Journal of New England medicine that your link bastardises? The Federalist article would have you believe it supports the idea that transgender people are inherently mentally ill, and that is the crux of their problem. The JNEM article is actually making the point that rather than just focusing on the issue of bathroom discrimination, the transgender community would benefit more from having greater access to health care that supports them. It's an article about the need for inclusivity in the health care sector. Suicide is mentioned once in the text:

One of the major causes of suicide among transgender people is a lack of help, particularly medical help. This is what that JNEM article explains. Many transgender people don't qualify for that particular branch of medical insurance, but please note: this isn't the same thing as discrimination or bigotry. If it was, people with severe stutters would also be victims of "discrimination and bigotry" because they too fail to qualify. As would people with pre-existing conditions, and so on and so forth.

However, the article also illustrates my point: bigotry and discrimination play little role in why they commit suicide on average. The JNEM article also demonstrates this fact.

[Mama Bear]

One of the major causes of suicide among transgender people is a lack of help, particularly medical help. This is what that JNEM article explains. Many transgender people don't qualify for that particular branch of medical insurance, but please note: this isn't the same thing as discrimination or bigotry. If it was, people with severe stutters would also be victims of "discrimination and bigotry" because they too fail to qualify. As would people with pre-existing conditions, and so on and so forth.

However, the article also illustrates my point: bigotry and discrimination play little role in why they commit suicide on average. The JNEM article also demonstrates this fact.

Most clinicians lack expertise in transgender health, some resist treating transgender patients, and some make prejudiced and abusive statements. The 2008–2009 U.S. National Transgender Discrimination Survey revealed that 28% of transgender adults experienced harassment in medical settings, 19% reported being refused care, and 28% postponed care because of discrimination; 50% of those who received care reported having to teach their clinicians about transgender care

It doesn't talk about insurance refusal as a major part of the issue. It's mentioned in passing towards the end. This quote says it's less about that (my bolding for emphasis). Even assuming that the 19% refused care were all due to insurance reasons, the other statistics speak to discrimination beyond insurance. As such, I don't see your point.

[champloo]

It doesn't talk about insurance refusal as a major part of the issue. It's mentioned in passing towards the end. This quote says it's less about that (my bolding for emphasis). Even assuming that the 19% refused care were all due to insurance reasons, the other statistics speak to discrimination beyond insurance. As such, I don't see your point.

The article I linked uses black suicide rates as an example. Blacks report an overwhelmingly larger amount of prejudice and bigotry than whites, yet their suicide rates are remarkably low... lower than those of whites by a sizable margin. If bigotry alone was a prominent cause for suicide, then why doesn't a group who receives just as much (or more) hate commit suicide at the same rate?

Meanwhile, the suicide rates of transexuals (you need an account to see links) with those who have mental illness. Considering few receive any sort of break with insurance companies due to their transexuality, not very many have easy or affordable access to medical help. Thus my point remains: if transexuals had adequate medical assistance, they would commit less suicide. It's not a bigotry issue.

[Mama Bear]

The article I linked uses black suicide rates as an example. Blacks report an overwhelmingly larger amount of prejudice and bigotry than whites, yet their suicide rates are remarkably low... lower than those of whites by a sizable margin. If bigotry alone was a prominent cause for suicide, then why doesn't a group who receives just as much (or more) hate commit suicide at the same rate?

Meanwhile, the suicide rates of transexuals (you need an account to see links) with those who have mental illness. Considering few receive any sort of break with insurance companies due to their transexuality, not very many have easy or affordable access to medical help. Thus my point remains: if transexuals had adequate medical assistance, they would commit less suicide. It's not a bigotry issue.

Australia has free health care, but our suicide rate is (you need an account to see links). Insurance obstacles are a narrow thing to blame.
While racial minorities are minorities, they have communities around them from birth. There is no fear of being shunned by your family for being black if they themselves are black. Don't you think that this notion might help explain the trend? Putting cultural differences aside (which would also contribute), it is far easier for racial minorities to find support within their home communities. For many LGBT+ people, they have to struggle to find/make their own communities.

[Synth Salazzle]

The article I linked uses black suicide rates as an example. Blacks report an overwhelmingly larger amount of prejudice and bigotry than whites, yet their suicide rates are remarkably low... lower than those of whites by a sizable margin. If bigotry alone was a prominent cause for suicide, then why doesn't a group who receives just as much (or more) hate commit suicide at the same rate?

Meanwhile, the suicide rates of transexuals (you need an account to see links) with those who have mental illness. Considering few receive any sort of break with insurance companies due to their transexuality, not very many have easy or affordable access to medical help. Thus my point remains: if transexuals had adequate medical assistance, they would commit less suicide. It's not a bigotry issue.

While you're not wrong about the medical help issue being extremely important and definitely part of the statistic,

Every trans person I've talked to. (And my own reasons personally) A major part of it is a lack of support from family and general loved ones. I'm not getting help for my disabilities because I can't afford it. so I don't feel being trans without medical assistance is what makes me feel that way. (I'm sure there's some people who do feel that way, but I doubt it's the majority.) If I had support from my family I'd be in a lot better of a place mentally.

[champloo]

Australia has free health care, but our suicide rate is (you need an account to see links). Insurance obstacles are a narrow thing to blame.
While racial minorities are minorities, they have communities around them from birth. There is no fear of being shunned by your family for being black if they themselves are black. Don't you think that this notion might help explain the trend? Putting cultural differences aside (which would also contribute), it is far easier for racial minorities to find support within their home communities. For many LGBT+ people, they have to struggle to find/make their own communities.

Comparing different countries' suicide statistics as if they're the same is a bit disingenuous. As you said, there's big cultural differences; transexuals in the Middle East commit suicide because it's less painful than submitting to the angry mobs, for instance. More importantly, the data I've presented reflects North American transexuals rather than Australian ones.

(you need an account to see links) You'll notice the rates of reported discrimination, harassment and bigotry still don't closely coincide with suicide rates. They still correlate most closely to mental disorder statistics, which I cited earlier in the thread.

Now if you don't mind I'd prefer we take this to PM. This isn't the thread for this argument, arguing will just get the thread locked.

[Synth Salazzle]

Comparing different countries' suicide statistics as if they're the same is a bit disingenuous. As you said, there's big cultural differences; transexuals in the Middle East commit suicide because it's less painful than submitting to the angry mobs, for instance. More importantly, the data I've presented reflects North American transexuals rather than Australian ones.

(you need an account to see links) You'll notice the rates of reported discrimination, harassment and bigotry still don't closely coincide with suicide rates. They still correlate most closely to mental disorder statistics, which I cited earlier in the thread.

Now if you don't mind I'd prefer we take this to PM. This isn't the thread for this argument, arguing will just get the thread locked.

I'm not opposed to the continuation here. It's insightful, there's no name calling or rudeness so I think it's okay if you two talk here. If you want to.