The Black Lives Matter Movement, in light of recent events?

[starlin]

I've been a blubbering baby all evening over the recent events here in the US involving the deaths of two black men at the hands of police and the deaths of four unrelated police officers in the midst of those protesting in the names of the two deceased men. It's heartbreaking, and I also find it quite scary.

So I turned to Facebook--sifted through the comments to trending media, read the posts of my less word-shy friends--and I was even more appalled. I've always held inwardly that the issues addressed by the Black Lives Matter Movement (BLM) are complex, and, quite frankly, I've found the movement itself (not its ultimate goal but many of its actions, perspectives, attitudes, sub-goals) to be a very wrong approach for bringing about justice for the men wrongfully killed. Apparently, though, according to the kind words of some family members and friends from behind their computer screens, if I cannot wholeheartedly jump to the support of BLM now, I'm "part of the problem." The posts are everywhere; if you fit one of the vague descriptions on this list, "You're part of the problem." They're often accompanied on personal feeds by "and tell me so I can block you." One thing I know for sure: I don't want to associate with that cold, divisive, hateful aggression.

So, with Facebook giving me no outlet for my sadness and concern (and with none of said family members or friends knowing that their words actually hurt people, even if they're borrowed from others and spoken online), I find myself taking to ck. I've found that this community is usually good at holding intelligent, level-headed conversation, so I'm really wondering what you guys are thinking right now. I'll jump in with more of what I think in a bit, but for now I'll take the standpoint of being an individual brokenhearted over the lives lost but an individual who is not for the Black Lives Matter Movement in its current form. (Or for the way that these men's deaths, unfortunately, are necessitating a debate that, despite the very point of the debate, ends up dehumanizing them. I hope their deaths can bring about more good somehow than what seems to be coming as a result.)

So what are your thoughts at that point? For BLM? Against? What's the right approach here?

[Lincoln]

The shots came from above the protesters. Until we have a suspect, it's not good to point fingers, and some people seem to be using this tragedy as political ammunition against BLM.

I just can't stand people using the term 'all lives matter' to respond to BLM.

[starlin]

The shots came from above the protesters. Until we have a suspect, it's not good to point fingers, and some people seem to be using this tragedy as political ammunition against BLM.

I just can't stand people using the term 'all lives matter' to respond to BLM.

For the sake of objective conversation, I've edited the original post to refrain from lumping the snipers with the protestors below.

[Lincoln]

For the sake of objective conversation, I've edited the original post to refrain from lumping the snipers with the protestors below.

Omg no I didn't mean you were doing this at all! Sorry if it came off that way I was saying that too many people I know are lumping them together. Your post was perfectly fine.

[starlin]

Omg no I didn't mean you were doing this at all! Sorry if it came off that way I was saying that too many people I know are lumping them together. Your post was perfectly fine.

Not to worry! I try to be meticulous with really intentional wording, so it was for the best! I don't want anything to be taken the wrong way.

[Mindfang]

its necessary and cops are racist pigs who kill black people literally every day just for shit they praise white people for.

[Lincoln]

its necessary and cops are racist pigs who kill black people literally every day just for shit they praise white people for.

Coming on a little strong. There is a systematic issue. That isn't to say that all cops are racist pigs, or that a significant portion of our law enforcement here in the stAtes are exclusively going around killing black people.

[Mama Bear]

its necessary and cops are racist pigs who kill black people literally every day just for shit they praise white people for.

Generalising large groups with the descriptors of some members is indeed troubling (pretty sure I've replied to you in the past about generalising, but anyway). For example, that black men are criminals/armed/dangerous. That perpetuates harmful thinking. Another example is that all cops are racist pigs. To tar all with the same brush is not only ignorant and wrong, but it's also harmful thinking.

Are there some African-American males who ARE criminals/armed/dangerous? Yes. Are there some cops who ARE racist/corrupt? Yes. But in both cases, there are many who do not fit that description. There is a problem with the system, definitely. I just cannot help but see it as hypocritical though when you're hating an entire group because of some of its members. As cynical as it is, there are going to be bad apples in any societal group. There are shifty lawyers, but that doesn't mean they all are. There are some priests who are child molesters; not all of them are. There are jaded teachers only in it for the paycheck, but that doesn't mean I am. Resorting to petty name-calling and a "fuck the police"-type attitude does zero to address the major issues. It just creates another barrier of ignorance and hate that is an obstacle to improvement.

May I also ask what "shit they praise white people for" you're talking about?

[Mindfang]

Generalising large groups with the descriptors of some members is indeed troubling (pretty sure I've replied to you in the past about generalising, but anyway). For example, that black men are criminals/armed/dangerous. That perpetuates harmful thinking. Another example is that all cops are racist pigs. To tar all with the same brush is not only ignorant and wrong, but it's also harmful thinking.

Are there some African-American males who ARE criminals/armed/dangerous? Yes. Are there some cops who ARE racist/corrupt? Yes. But in both cases, there are many who do not fit that description. There is a problem with the system, definitely. I just cannot help but see it as hypocritical though when you're hating an entire group because of some of its members. As cynical as it is, there are going to be bad apples in any societal group. There are shifty lawyers, but that doesn't mean they all are. There are some priests who are child molesters; not all of them are. There are jaded teachers only in it for the paycheck, but that doesn't mean I am. Resorting to petty name-calling and a "fuck the police"-type attitude does zero to address the major issues. It just creates another barrier of ignorance and hate that is an obstacle to improvement.

May I also ask what "shit they praise white people for" you're talking about?

i dont trust police because they have systematic power over people and use it to their advantage. i really dont believe in "good cops". generalising sure is bad, but i cannot look at anyone in the police force and feel any level of safety. i feel especially unsafe if police are around, because i know they have the power to hurt me for any reason. i dont feel pity for police, because being an officer or anything like that is a choice, being a minority (in my case Not A CisHet, in the threads case Not White). they accept the danger of being killed on the job as they sign up for it, black people do not sign up for police brutality when they are born black, but they receive it regardless.

i dont generalise people as a general rule, but after run-ins with multiple types of people that fall into the same category of person that all gave me a reason to dislike them, generalising just makes sense to me personally, and its something i do for my own safety. not all cops are bad, but the ones ive met, the ones ive read about, the ones who use their power to kill black people, are the ones i see most of, and are the ones i avoid all cops just to make sure i never have a run-in with one of the bad ones.
you have a 6 pack of sodas and you sip 2 and both are piss, youre not gonna fuckin open and sip the rest because of the danger theyre also probably piss.

call it whatever you want, but i feel my dislike of all cops is justified. you choose to be in that system knowing how corrupt it is, thats an issue with you in my eyes.

also, maybe "praise" wasnt the right word, but white people DO get away with a lot of shit black people get gunned down/beaten for. too lazy to dig up articles and examples, but take into account the whites walking around target with assault rifles on their backs, and then take into account the black 12 year old who was gunned down for playing with a toy gun. the white people who literally hold guns to peoples heads and get off with either a warning or some jailtime, and the blacks who even walk down the street with a gun they have a right to hold (isnt that the big debate right now?) and are gunned down, and THEN take into account, outside the case of guns, where you see all these cute little stories with cops visiting white peoples house parties and smoking pot with them, then the fact black people have their deaths justified because they smoked a joint or drew a pot leaf on a desk once.

blm is necessary because in a world where black people are killed by the handful every week, it feels like theyre expendable by everyone and nobody feels differently. when you need entire movements to prove to people youre human and need basic respect from those meant to protect and serve, you know theres an issue.

[Ghosts]

call it whatever you want, but i feel my dislike of all cops is justified. you choose to be in that system knowing how corrupt it is, thats an issue with you in my eyes.

Oh, because it's impossible that somebody wants to become a police officer so that they can actually help people and make a difference in their community? Yeah, of course they know there's corruption going into it, but I don't understand how that makes you think of them as less than anybody else. Be the change you want to see in the world. Not everybody that becomes a cop is in it for bad reasons. Most aren't.

Also, it pisses me off so much when people say stupid shit like this:

where you see all these cute little stories with cops visiting white peoples house parties and smoking pot with them, then the fact black people have their deaths justified because they smoked a joint or drew a pot leaf on a desk once.

You're literally nitpicking certain one off events without any context or evidence whatsoever. Link me to a news article about somebody being killed for drawing a pot leaf. Link me to a "cute story" about cops smoking with white people at a party. You're exaggerating on both ends of the spectrum, making it seem like there's a bigger gap between how white/black people are treated on average. You're part of the fucking problem. The media does the same shit because it gets people mad, gets them reading/watching more, which makes them money. They blow shit way out of proportion so that they get clicks. It's fucked up, it makes people scared of shit that really, you don't have to worry about. The chances of a cop shooting/killing/arresting you if you're not doing anything wrong is slim to none.

America is fucked up. No matter what happens, there will be people that generalize and blow shit way out of proportion, either for their own gain or some other reason. There are certainly things that could be fixed, but that is one of the biggest problems in my opinion. Everyone just chill the fuck out.