I'm on mobile so I cba complaining more than I need to
I'd find your friends criticisms valid had they not blamed tumblr for the concepts. Tumblr did not create being genderless, or a demiboy, or a demigirl or agender (meeeee!). Tumblr may go too far sometimes, true, but why do you feel uncomfortable with the concept of gender being challenged?
Demi sexualities and romantic identities I agree I don't understand, but why do you feel uncomfortable that people feel comfortable identifying that way? What's so wrong in boxing yourself in with labels if it makes you feel secure in your identity? More importantly, why does it concern you? Just use their correct fucking pronouns and respect their identity, it's literally not hard.
Like @(you need an account to see links) (I love your profiles they're always so pretty!) said; life becomes so much easier when you stop worrying about special snowflake labels and apply the ones you feel comfortable to yourself. And that's what a lot of these people have done. And that's great. Because a majority of them are young children and are learning to embrace this part of themselves early.
Do you know how transphobic I was when I was 14? How miserable and confused I was as a result? I'd misgender my trans friends on purpose and call them shims and make fun of them when they got mad, then barely 3 years later I came out myself as trans and boy was that ever embarrassing. I became that disgusting "homophobic bully TURNS OUT TO HAVE A GAY CRUSH ALL ALONG!!!!!" Trope. It was shameful and embarrassing and I'm glad kids won't go through it because they're learning about gender identities early.
People who identify as these things are usually mentally ill too, and it causes a sense of confusion in their sense of identity. Labelling is their way of coping. Just like self harm is a coping mechanism for depressed people, labelling yourself as accurately as possible is a coping mechanism for people with, for instance, borderline personality disorder, where their sense of identity is so warped or nonexistent it feels difficult to know they're even real sometimes.
Being mentally ill is stressful, it's even more stressful when people are going around calling you a special snowflake or a tumblrina (again, the concept of multiple genders outside the binary IS NOT a tumblr thing and has been around for millennia), and once you learn that these people are just ignorant and don't want to change that part of them, you realise it's easy to ignore and that you're free to id how you want. I was scared to identify as nonhuman, or genderless, because I was scared people would judge me... And they did! And they do! But it makes me feel secure in my identity which is otherwise scary and confusing to me, so... Why do I care? A lot of kids are taking this mentality on board AND I LOVE IT!!!!!!! BECAUSE IT MAKES ANTI SJWS AND TRANSPHOBES UNCOMFORTABLE!!!!!!!! HEHEHE
again though I really must ask, why do you feel the identities of others, especially mentally ill people and younger teenagers, concern you?
Tl;dr this is a bad fuckin post op! Let people fuckin live
I think there's always a middle ground. People definitely shouldn't be making light of sexualities/gender identities by subscribing to one that they are not truly a part of. But so what? It's still better to honour everyone's identities even if some people aren't genuine, rather than disregard everyone's identities in case some people aren't genuine. It's literally "innocent until proven guilty", for lack of a better phrase.
Don't be that asshole who invalidates someone's identity. Does it really inconvenience you to call someone fae/faeself? Fuck, I get so mad because one of my friends keeps purposefully misgendering trans people. That's fuckin disrespectful. You can either accept what they claim they are and it's no skin off your nose, or you could ruin someone's day/month/ages just because you thought a concept - or a collective movement - was over the top.
JUS B URSELF
AND JUST BE KIND TO OTHERS.
damn, fruitbat was right, you are the #1 sjw (y)Originally Posted by Peridot
I agree 100% with your position though! i think you said it better than i did. :u
Last edited by Ribbon; 10-10-2015 at 06:05 AM. Reason: I'D BEEN MAKING COFFFE FOR NINE FRIKIN HOURS BUT THEN I TOOK A NAP AND THEN TIDIED UP THIS POST.
Mindfang (10-10-2015)
Nailed it!
Some video on the Tubes atm trending got lots of hate with a trans girl to man. Don't understand the hate!
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I can tell already this thread will be the cause of major drama. Pre-warning to keep things civil, you opinion is your opinion not something everybody has to agree with.
I personally don't understand gender/sexuality roles. It's a fairly new concept for me, didn't even know 97% of these non-binary things existed. Hell fuck I didn't even know what non-binary was up until 2 days ago but I'm trying to understand things. From an outsider/ignorant perspective, to me the whole thing felt like a bunch of kids bored with their lives making shit up as they go along. That was my first thought. It sounds oppressive but it's a change and like any change it will be met with resistance.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the things I'm learning because it's like a whole Pandora's box just opened up and out came all this 'crazy' shit that I didn't know existed came sprawling out. It's gonna take me some time to understand and even longer to accept but I'm trying.
I think the point Peridot is trying to make is that its a coping mechanism for some to help them understand who they might be, let them know they are not alone and there are others like them going through the same thing.
Just wanted to stress that incase it got overlooked because it was pointed out to me that the suicide rate is fucking gnarly with trans people so the increase in awareness is a good thing imo but for mine it's definitely going to take time to learn and accept.
Hello I am retired.
(you need an account to see links) || (you need an account to see links)
honestlyyyyyy i really cant blame you for being like "the fuck?" at most of it, because admittedly i was too. it wasnt until the last year i adopted the "unless its hurting me personally its not really my place to tell them its wrong" mentality. my friend came out to me as a demigirl recently and my first reaction was "what the actual shit are you talking about? just say youre nonbinary lol" (of course i just said 'ok sure' and rolled with it, but like you said it was a new idea and i met it with resistance and confusion and overall 'sounds fake, grow up') but in keeping an open mind i eventually sort of came to Get It. sometimes i still dont, but i think in this case all it really takes is... accepting you dont fully understand it and moving on? you dont need to understand everything in life, things you dont understand shouldnt be met with violence or general disrespect either. like shit i dont fuckin understand physics but im not gonna go around bullying physicists or yelling at objects that do basic physics shit as they are wont to do. like... you just need to think "ok well clearly it makes them comfortable and its not my place to dictate that, i hope theyre happy and secure and ill do my best to help them feel safe around me"
of course im using the general 'you' here haha.
like even i, socially aware god on the top of moral mountain that i am, still look at concepts (as i mentioned with demiromanticism/demisexuality) and think "thats... fake... and sort of dumb sounding..." but i think, given the general intolerant environment a majority of people grow up in, thats to be expected. i find myself faulting people for it even though i do it too, and thats shitty of me, but even the most socially aware people arent perfect. nobody came out of the womb reading a goddamn textbook on social injustice being all "doctor, please do not assign me a gender, it is cissexist and oppressive. now, if i may talk to you about racism," like? purging yourself of learned intolerance is a good thing but it does take a while and it doesnt matter how much of an sjw you are, youre still gonna have some problematic opinions. its just realising theyre Problematique and working on fixing them thats the issue.
but yeah, in the least patronising asspat way, im glad you at least have a mindset where youre willing to listen and try to get it even if you dont. especially if youre willing to take the coping mechanism aspect of it on board. a lot of people arent even willing to do that alone lmao. theres a big difference between confusing with willingness to adapt and intolerance with no willingness to learn and its sometimes difficult to discern who has what mentality but uh.
whatever point i was gonna make should probably make itself clear to someone here because its not making itself clear to me anymore LMFAO shit boy. my fetish is typing words with the hopes theyll make up coherent sentences at least once.
J (10-10-2015),Kitten (06-25-2016),es s ic a Naked Gamer(10-10-2015),Puff (11-16-2016)
You're a fucking awesome person!
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Air (10-13-2015)
It is funny to me to see how people feel the need to judge others. They value their own opinion so much that they say anything they think. The example of the 15 yo is a good one. One is entitled to think that the other person is agender or male. But now comes the important step: think before you speak. Expressing your opinion can really confuse or harm someone else. So before I speak: is it helpful or neccessary for the other person what I am thinking?
Completely agree, people just need to learn to shut up at times and keep there views to them self unless it's positive to the situation like supporting the person.
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@(you need an account to see links) Neither of us feel uncomfortable about the concept of gender being challenged, we're just concerned about the well-being of people. Extremism is not exclusive to politics and/or religion, it can be found everywhere, and the gender and sexuality debate seems to have a whole lot of it. Some gender and sexuality classifications are becoming ridiculous enough to trivialize the entire subject in the eyes of others, and it attracts attention away from those who are truly struggling with it. Every niggling little preference does not warrant a whole new sexuality, and quite frankly the general idea that it does is astoundingly illogical.
If we (as a society) accept these new labels what are these people going to have to accept? Others wanting to identify and be accepted as animals? I'm not talking about cosplay or even enjoying the furry dress up and play. I'm talking about those that want to live like a cat, dog, wolf, bug and so on. Are those willing to house, feed, walk, clean up after, support.... ah well you get the point. They will be able to make as valid claim for being a cat as anyone can for being anything else. The funny thing is that there legitimately are people who think that way. And not even to the level that they think they are a wolf in a human body, but even fictional things like dragons. Even fictional characters like "Dave from Homestuck." Even inanimate objects like one person on another forum who claims to be a reincarnation of the Titanic. And I don't mean a troll, this person is serious. And there is a whole thread of people who seriously, earnestly go along with it. It has to end, you have to draw the line somewhere.
Then what these people need is professional help to deal with their problems, not guides to hotdogself (only zhu/zhem/zhirs pronouns!) on the internet. And since we're on pronouns, it's not reasonable to expect everyone you meet to use pronouns outside of she, he, and they. "They" is an acceptable catch-all for any sort of "other," but demanding the use of something like ze, xhe, etc. is unreasonable.
User5931 (10-15-2015)
@(you need an account to see links) oh i get it, youre pulling the extreme scenarios that would never happen. ok.
people who are kin with animals usually have enough sense to know they wont get any sort of "rights" to be kin. those who think kin are oppressed are generally ignored by the majority of the kin community, because a majority of kin know they are not oppressed, nor "on par" with trans people, and really the closest theyll get to their kintype is usually dressing up, which they are fine with. using the extreme people as your outline for an entire community is never a good idea. i used to feel the same as you, but in talking to maaaaany kintypes, i learned that they dont expect anything except people to leave them the fuck alone to live how they want. if that includes shitting in the woods and eating dog food, then let them do it? it literally does not affect you in a negative way lol.
you know what makes people take trans people less seriously? people who dont want to take trans people seriously to begin with. neopronouns, gender neutral pronouns, custom pronouns... dont change the fact someone is trans. nonbinary, agender, demigender, all those genders... are legitimate genders. which, again, have been around for millennia. everyones taken them seriously all this time, why do people have an issue now? how do you know people with neopronouns and the like arent struggling with it themselves either? as far as i know, i being someone who identifies as agender using it/its pronouns for the most part, i struggle with it, and my friends, who use fae/faeself pronouns struggles with it too. gender itself is a struggle, accommodating your desires to make yourself more comfortable in your gender identity only makes it easier for yourself. i get that barely anyone wants to call me 'it' in real life! it makes people uncomfortable! ive been told it makes them uncomfortable, so i offer alternative pronouns (he/him for anyone reading who isnt ok with it/its!), i told my friend who uses fae- pronouns it makes me feel awkward, but you know what i found? respecting the pronouns didnt take much effort at all! and after a while i learned that their struggle is just as valid as mine, as a nonbinary person.
gender itself is a valid struggle. there is no proper or legitimate way to identify. there is nothing that prevents anyone taking gender issues less seriously than people who do not want to take gender seriously to begin with. they will blame pronouns and identities, but the truth is? theyre just dealing with internalised intolerance, and they will find, as drizzy said, that although they dont get it at first, they will if they just Listen and Think About It and keep an open mind. if they dont want to take gender seriously, they wont, and thats their issue to deal with. people identifying how they wish wont change that, they just use it as an excuse to be... transphobic, is all that is really.
also, this idea that everyone who identifies as these things needs, isnt getting, or has the access to "professional help" is classist and ableist, im sorry to inform you. not everyone can have access to therapy. i only have access to it because i get it free in the uk. not everyone can afford it, not everyone can get it safely due to an abusive home life (which theyre using their identity to cope with, because you cannot control an abusive household. but you can control your identity and how others refer to you, it gives them a security they dont otherwise have), or theyre too young, or anything could be preventing these people from acquiring medical attention.
im getting medical attention. ive told my therapist i identify as nonhuman with no gender, theyre ok with it. because they know its a coping mechanism to deal with my mental illness. youll find thats the case with many therapists actually. if they see that their patients identity is not harming them or the people around them, theyll allow it. because it harms no one.
the identity of others does not harm you or anyone else. their reasoning does not harm you or anyone else. their identity is valid, and doesnt invalidate the identities of """"real"""" trans people (which i am! and i am friends with many trans people and nonbinary and alt gender people! we dont invalidate any of the others identities!). it also isnt unreasonable for people to ask for basic respect? thats what using peoples pronouns is. respect. lol.
like, again, it really does not concern you how mentally ill children or adults choose to express themselves. just respect them and move on. you dont need to understand nor talk over trans people, which you... are doing right now actually.
Last edited by Mindfang; 10-10-2015 at 05:07 PM.
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