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Thread: Suicide : is it ever justifiable?

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin View Post
    A good friend and colleague of mine committed suicide almost 3 years ago. It was absolutely devastating, not only for me but for his other friends and family. Ever since I've had a strong view against suicide.

    I believe that suicide is the absolute most selfish thing someone could ever do. There are so many options and there is always help you can get! I don't think a lot of people realize that suicide hurts everyone around you, especially your family. It always makes me so sad when I hear of someone committing suicide. And I despise bullies for driving so many young kids to suicide more than ever lately.
    I'm very sorry for your lost.

    I agree that suicide is one of the most selfish thing that you can do. I'm more thinking about how the person who commit suicide feels. Who never ever just had a small thought about ending his life? When pain is so hard you can't think about anything else. YES someone would always find you an arguement about how any options could be better. But, when someone suicide, it's because they didn't choose to wait to see, to try. It's because this was enough. I thought many times about ending my life, when I went through hard time. I never really tryed to kill myself. During certain years, I wasn't thinking about my family, friends and all persons that could be affected by my death. My only thoughts were about myselfpain.

    Strangly, I on day dreamed about my little brother commiting suicide. Then I really realized how could my absence could affect people close to me and even people just around. But maybe some people doesn't have anything left. Or in many case they THINK that nobody cares about them. They think talking to people won't help.

    I'm sure one day I'll think about suicide again. I will probably see the other options, but not really want to go for them.

    I totally understand why anyone can be against suicide, but I can maybe see the point of view of people who did choose to end their live.

    And I didn't meant to hurt anyone by my debate's title. I didn't meant to be rude or to demean this act. Sorry if you felt attacked.

  2. #12
    Ryan~'s Avatar
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    I'm going to try and say anything without coming off as ignorant or offensive. Obviously I'm no expert....but:

    If you feel you have to end your own life because your current life is "so bad". Look at what you DO have, as compared to those who have nothing. Boyfriend broke up with you? Oh well, you don't need him.
    What I'm saying is...nothing is EVER EVER EVER bad enough to take your own life. You can ALWAYS call someone or tell the authorities if someone else is making you want to harm yourself.

    this goes for cutting, also.

  3. #13
    Bettser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bammeh View Post
    I'm going to try and say anything without coming off as ignorant or offensive. Obviously I'm no expert....but:

    If you feel you have to end your own life because your current life is "so bad". Look at what you DO have, as compared to those who have nothing. Boyfriend broke up with you? Oh well, you don't need him.
    What I'm saying is...nothing is EVER EVER EVER bad enough to take your own life. You can ALWAYS call someone or tell the authorities if someone else is making you want to harm yourself.

    this goes for cutting, also.
    This is where the fine line between a cry for help/attention and no options comes into play.

  4. #14
    Ryan~'s Avatar
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    There is ALWAYS an option. Suicide is NEVER the option though. I'm going to leave this, though I don't like the debate forum. I don't like to argue. But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

  5. #15

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    This is taken from another forum I frequent, but well worth the read:

    Quote Originally Posted by WireEater View Post
    As some know, my dad passed away back in August. He actually committed suicide. And let me tell you one thing. My father was FAR from being a selfish person, in fact, it was never about him, including him taking his life. He would pull his shirt off his back for anyone, including a stranger.

    Was it a surprise to everyone, yes, did it hurt? It was the worst day of my life so far. Nothing will feel like when I had to open my door and had to answer to the officer If I knew Charlie Wensel and upon answering him I seen his eyes and heart sink to the floor when he had to tell me my father passed away. When I found it how he died, it all made sense to me and I wasn't mad at my dad.

    He was an extremely smart man. He always had a reason for his actions. He had this planned out for awhile. It got to a point where my brother and I had to laugh at how planned he had everything. He left behind clues that only my brother and I would understand because he knew the police would be in his house. He was a private guy and didn't like anyone going through his personal belongings. The things he left behind the investigators didn't understand at all, we just smiled and told them they'd have to know him. Basically he hid some keys and a note under a rock for us.

    He left his notes to us in his gun safe. He knew they would have loved to get in their to see what he had. But anyways, his notes were extremely detailed and had everything laid out for us. He told us not to worry about him, he will be alright. He had GPS way points loaded, maps and pictures for us marked with coordinates and directions to the spot he wanted his ashes. He loved the outdoors. Thinking back the other weeks before his suicide a lot of the little things came back, like conversations with him, him showing us things, etc. He was trying to condition us for what was going to happen.

    He wasn't taken the easy way out. He loved my grandkids A LOT and he even mentioned it in his letter. He just felt like his life would have been more of a burden in the upcoming years than a benefit. He was laid off from work back in 09 from construction. Never got hired back. They ended up hiring new, young workers for 1/2 his wage. He had to live off of his retirements for 3 years. At the age of 58, where do you go after that? He unemployment ran out (I found over 300 documented places he put applications in during that time). He was an old tough man, pride got to him, he never wanted help from people. I was taking him what ever I could even though I was struggling with money. I'd have to hide it in his house for him to take it.

    Anyways, he didn't want to have to depend on family members to help him and I can't hold that against him... that doesn't sound selfish to me at all. He also LOVED the out doors and lived outside. He lived on the mountains in a beautiful home 10 feet off a mountain stream. He was getting old and he was having some health issues. He would never tell us about it though. I NEVER remember my dad going to the doctors in my life. He never talked about things that he was going through. If you were a friend, his private life didn't exist. Anyways, he was also having health issues and I'm sure that he couldn't imagine himself being an old guy that has a hard time getting around that will... depend on people helping him. Again, it was about not being a burden on other people. Doesn't sound selfish.

    In the past 4 years he got to do a lot of things. (Skit dive license, pilot license, live on the mountains. I think he truly felt that he got to live his life to the best he could and was able to accomplish a lot of the things he wanted. Once you have reached that, what else did he have to go for? Yes he had his family but he understood that his own kids were now adults with their own issues, he didn't want to cause any more.

    So I came to terms with his death very quickly because he was such a respectful guy and I know what he did wasn't to hurt anyone, it's just what he felt would be best for him and everyone else.

    Before he left he cleaned the house (rented), spotless. He wrote down everything in the note that wasn't his so we couldn't take it from the house. He paid off all his bills before going. He put the rest of the money he had in a jar and told us to leave it there. He told us to leave the custom shed there for the landlord to cover the rent he owed. He left 2 extra pans of water on the dog kennels (he LOVED his dogs) to make sure they were fine until someone was able to get there. He then walked 2 miles up the road next to the river that was pointing to the location he wanted his ashes spread (open mountain view) and put one clean shot through his heart.

    He was very strict about gun safety and always made sure we were the same when handling guns. He only put 1 round in the chamber and positioned himself against a rock to make sure the bullet didn't travel anywhere beyond his body. The only thing he had in his pocket was phone numbers for me , my brother and a few family and friends, his license and is CCW permit.

    Sorry, but nothing about this was selfish. He was looking out for everyone and everything.

    He had everything sorted in envelopes for us. From his birth certificates, to titles to his boats/car/truck already signed over to us to certain requests with items. The guy was a boss to be honest. He went out with pride and I respect that and him and would never look at him any different than I ever did because he was the same damn way when he went out...

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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bammeh View Post
    There is ALWAYS an option. Suicide is NEVER the option though. I'm going to leave this, though I don't like the debate forum. I don't like to argue. But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
    Have you been there? And what if the person has other things influencing that we could not imagine?

  8. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bammeh View Post
    There is ALWAYS an option. Suicide is NEVER the option though. I'm going to leave this, though I don't like the debate forum. I don't like to argue. But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
    Suicide IS an option, because some people choosed to end their live. Is it the BEST in YOUR opinion? Maybe not.
    I think that we, humans, are machines that are made to balance good and bad things before taking a decision. Are we always taking the best decision? Depends of the consequences and the person's point of view. =/

  9. #18
    Kristin's Avatar
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    In response to what Ronith posted, that story is a VERY VERY rare case. A good majority of people who commit suicide don't do all that planning and stuff.
    But I'm not judging.

    I'm gonna leave too, I don't like debating about sensitive things. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that.



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  10. #19

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    Meh. As someone who was actually very suicidal for several years to the point that I ended up landing in the emergency room and got shipped off to this rehab place, I'd like to comment that it's really demeaning to say that suicide is a cowardly act. However, I think it's also a very grey area that can never be generalized because every case is different and it's such a complex issue.

    To those who think suicide is a coward's decision, I question whether or not you think it is it brave that people who hate the world so much end up living each day -- and it only cowardly when they decide not to live anymore? Or is it cowardly that people are even considering suicide?

    I think suicide is a calculated choice. People with famous political careers who killed themselves after some scandal -- was that a mark of weak moral character? Maybe. But is it your position to judge/care? Not really. Do you think Hitler was a coward? I think it was in his best interests to end it while he had a chance instead of getting shipped to a terrible prison for life.

    As these examples demonstrate, each case is different. You cannot generalize suicide to be cowardly or brave in its entirety. Additionally, it does raise a good question -- is it ever justifiable? I think this thread is a good topic but people who brand suicide with a certain nature are detracting from the point of the topic. Furthermore, I don't think people are looking broadly enough and are instead choosing to look at only certain types of suicides. How about a high ranking soldier captured in war who knows that he will be tortured until he leaks some intelligence? I would consider it an honor and an act of bravery if he chooses to commit suicide after prolonged torture so that there is a 100% chance he doesn't leak intel.

    Would you consider him a coward? If so, would it be perhaps you thought he should have toughed out the torture? So he's supposed to have the character and integrity to withstand torture? That's a rather rare virtue in my opinion.

    Justifiable implies that it is in your best interests, or for a greater good, or for some other reason that tends to be a "justifying" one.

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  12. #20

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    Well yeah, look at it in this position:

    Would you rather be tortured for a very long time knowing it will happen and hurt and die anyways in the process (not suicide), or just kill yourself?

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