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Thread: Abortion?

  1. #11
    Clear's Avatar
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    I agree with everything learningtoneopet1 has stated.

    Here's an interesting thought that I came across before: If someone were to be dying, and a blood transfusion would save their life, no one could force anyone to give blood to that person. Even though it's an easy and safe procedure. Even if it would save a life of a fully grown and developed person, it can't be forced on someone.

    Why is that, exactly? Because we have something called, "Bodily autonomy" which is the idea that we hold that people should have complete control over their own bodies and above all else, this should never be infringed upon. In respect of this, we aren't even allowed to take organs from DYING/DEAD people in order to save someone else. This is why you must register to be an organ donor.

    If you were to ask a woman to give up her bodily autonomy for 9 months against their will in an expensive, invasive and difficult (not to mention painful and debilitating to some levels) process to save what you consider to be a life (which, as learningtoneopet1 has said - this is honestly debatable, since most abortions are done within the first 12 weeks and life is a pretty hard thing to define even when we're not talking about fetuses)...Well, that's just ridiculous when you think about it. And completely unethical. Why is it suddenly different when a fetus is involved? Why do people feel we can force someone to give up their bodily autonomy in this case, but not when something much simpler (like a blood transfusion) is involved? It makes zero sense.

    Essentially, it's giving women less bodily autonomy than a dead person.
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clear View Post
    Why is it suddenly different when a fetus is involved? Why do people feel we can force someone to give up their bodily autonomy in this case, but not when something much simpler (like a blood transfusion) is involved?[/U][/B]
    Because you can't get pregnant by yourself ~
    Not saying women shouldn't have the choice, but abortion/pregnancy is totally different from a blood transfusion since it involves genetic material from two parties lol

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    Because you can't get pregnant by yourself ~
    [..] you need genetic material from two parties lol
    that literally has nothing to do with it though? its a series of pills that cause a clump of cells to be expelled. why does the origin of those cells matter.

    also your weird ~it takes two to tango~ is kind of offensive because sex isn't always between two people that agreed to it.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitten View Post
    that literally has nothing to do with it though? its a series of pills that cause a clump of cells to be expelled. why does the origin of those cells matter.

    also your weird ~it takes two to tango~ is kind of offensive because sex isn't always between two people that agreed to it.
    It takes two people for a person to get preg (male & female). since the resulting fetus or zygote or whatever is made thru a team effort, so why shouldn't the male get a say in what happens to his genetic material?? Isn't that infringing on his "bodily autonomy" too? lol

    That's why I'm saying a blood transfusion and an abortion aren't comparable in this case ~

    & I'm only talking about normal pregnancy cases btw not things like rape where the pregnancy was forced.

    I hope I explained that properly lol it's like 4 am for me rn

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  7. #15
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    It shouldn't matter. The woman agreed to sex - not to giving up her body for 9 months.
    Just because it's "her own fault" as you're more or less implying doesn't mean she should be forced to give up her rights to bodily autonomy. And in many (if not most) cases, women who don't want children were using protection that failed, had a lack of knowledge (usually from age) or were raped.
    We do not punish people with things of this caliber just because they did something stupid.

    The woman aborting a fetus does not encroach on a guy's bodily autonomy, as the fetus itself isn't what's in question here but rather the woman's body as a vessel. It's not forcing the man to do anything with his body that he doesn't want to do. His sperm, once it's left his body, is no longer his to have any say over. Evident clearly in how women are allowed to dig through trash cans and take disposed condoms and use the semen to impregnate themselves. Crazy and fucked up, but legal.

    Edit to add: Though I want to be clear, I do think it's unfortunate that men can't have a say in children. But, the woman has a higher investment and so she gets to choose. However, I especially find it unfair for men who don't want kids but the woman chooses to keep them and then the male must pay child support for 18 years. Sucks but what can you do. :/
    Last edited by Clear; 04-28-2015 at 03:24 AM.
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  9. #16
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    I believe that women do deserve the right to abort pregnancy if they don't feel like they'll be able to provide efficiently for the child, or if they just don't want it in general.

    Men should have some say in what happens to the fetus too, however. But, if a case like this does arise the man should take full legal responsibility of the child once it is born, and pay for any medical bills that the woman would otherwise have to pay if she was alone and having the child, kind of like the adoption where the birthmother gives the child away and opts to never see them.

    If it's a couple, then I don't see how it would be any issue. If they get pregnant, and the woman doesn't want to have the baby, they probably wouldn't stay together very long afterwards lol.
    >

  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clear View Post
    and life is a pretty hard thing to define
    It isn't really, but when you get down to it every cell is "life" including the eggs and sperm that get flushed/trashed on a daily basis.

    I remember being pro-life (anti-choice) in high school, having been a good little religious virgin following the straight and narrow for the longest time. "If she didn't want a baby she shouldn't have had sex!" (basically "She should accept the punishment (baby, shame) for her wrongdoing(sexing)" Hellooooo Scarlet Letter!) Now, 10+ years later I have plenty of sex and still have no desire for a baby. Over the years I have taken an interest in this issue, reading stories from women with every experience under the sun. For some it's a huge decision, some it's just a medical procedure. For some women the pregnancy was healthy but unwanted, some it was wanted but unhealthy. Some regretted aborting, some regretted not aborting. It all comes down to a thousand or more variables individual to each case, and there will never be laws that satisfy all of them. To me it comes down to the woman in question making the decision that is best for her individual situation, under the care of a licensed and caring physician and staff. "If she hadn't had sex" the "baby" wouldn't exist anyway, and I do not believe in souls/consciousness/self-awareness pre-viability.

    Myself, if I were to find myself pregnant today I am not sure what I would do. I'm happily married, employed, settled, and financially secure. I have not decided if I want children ever, and certainly not yet. I have both the choice available to me to get insured medical care to see the pregnancy through, AND the financial stability to fly myself somewhere I could get abortion care (because my state has ridiculous hoops to jump through). But I am an anomaly, and many many many many women do not have either of those options. I believe they should.

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  12. #18
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    I think I'm the only one here who is pro-life. o.0

    I personally believe that once the baby has its own heart beat, brain, and features well that really is a human being. I don't hate anyone who has an abortion because its not me and I can't make choices for others. But I know of a few women who have had abortions and regretted it tremendously. Being a parent isn't for everyone but if you can you should always try your best to stay protected so its not something that you even have to make a choice on. And yes you can always bring up the fact someone could of been raped and I can understand 100 percent why someone would terminate the pregnancy because of the memories and horror the child would remind you of.
    But personally the thought of ever loosing one of my own children especially at my owns hands would destroy me.
    I found out I was about seven weeks pregnant in tenth grade. I was in love with the dad (we are happily married now) and really wanted to start a family one day. I know I shouldn't of been screwing around at sixteen but...HORMONES HAPPEN. I had a few of his family members mention the option of an abortion to me because my mom wouldn't "ever let me see him again if they found out".
    That still was never an option for me though. Because I did the tango it was my responsibility. That baby was its own little being and couldn't make a choice for himself. So I dabbled at the idea of adoption but honestly the further along I became the more I fell in love with that little human being I was growing. Pregnancy can be TERRIBLE don't get me wrong. You feel like shit and hurt in places you've never hurt before..and lets not even talk about the stretch marks that magically appear all over your poor body. But there are many things that are completely extraordinary about it! Feeling the baby move for the first time, going to see that little being grown at doctors appointments, oh and getting away with eating way more then you really should be. :p

    Honestly once you meet that little person for the first time its the most magical feeling. I think in ways having my son saved me from continuing to be a stupid teenager. He's seriously the most amazing person I've ever met. He's so smart for his age and every day with him is a gift. He shares my love for pokemon, neopets, dragons and so much more. I almost lost him when he was four months old and it was the most EXTREME pain I have ever felt in my entire life. He brings me and the rest of my family so much joy and if I chose to abort him I don't think I'd be as happy as I am today. That's just my little story and thoughts on abortion.

    I hope I didn't offend anyone because that wasn't my intent at all. Just wanted to share because I'm bored and both my boys are napping. ^^

    is it spooky season yet?

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  14. #19
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    I am pro-choice, since I don't really care what anyone else does with their body.

    I would prefer using contraceptives to prevent getting pregnant in the first place, but shit happens, hey.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    It takes two people for a person to get preg (male & female). since the resulting fetus or zygote or whatever is made thru a team effort, so why shouldn't the male get a say in what happens to his genetic material?? Isn't that infringing on his "bodily autonomy" too? lol

    That's why I'm saying a blood transfusion and an abortion aren't comparable in this case ~

    & I'm only talking about normal pregnancy cases btw not things like rape where the pregnancy was forced.

    I hope I explained that properly lol it's like 4 am for me rn
    Not really. Bodily autonomy is the right to decide what happens to your own body- what happens to it, how it's used, things like that. So no, what happens to Girl A's body doesn't infringe on the bodily autonomy of Boy B. Unless they're like conjoined twins or something and sharing a body, in which case they probably have bigger issues. Nothing is happening to his body without his consent. But if B decides "hey, I want that baby inside of A!" and A decides "no, I don't want a baby", then B goes "well too bad, I want the baby, so you're going to keep it"- that means that A's rights are being infringed upon. She's being forced or coerced to have something done to her body (being put through a pregnancy) that she does not want. Nothing is happening to the boy's body, so none of his rights are being infringed on.

    Rape and forced pregnancies aren't the only situations where an unwanted pregnancy could occur. Sometimes birth control is tampered with, or lied about, or purposefully withheld. Plus, just consenting to sex isn't automatically consenting to have a child.

    The blood transfusion metaphor is pretty apt, because at the core of both situations you're basically making the call "should someone other than the owner of a body get to decide what happens to that body?". I mean...should your mom get a say in whether or not you get a flu shot? You're made up of half her genetic material, she was half of your birth (you being born and her giving birth), so by that logic she should get to decide since it was a team effort that brought you into this world.

    (And anyway, if the issue is that the boy/man in the situation has some kind of right to the zygote because it's half his genes or whatever, then he can just have the fetus after it's aborted. If its his property then by all means take it, I don't see why he would have some inherent right for it to be incubated for 9 months lol.)

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