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Thread: Feminism, and other related issues.

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sociopath View Post
    @(you need an account to see links) I acknowledged in my post about people that basically get a degree for pretty much nothing and I agree it is worth it in that situation. What I don't understand is going into debt or spending the time to go as far as a masters degree just to stay at home..waste of time
    It depends on how society and its subjects see school. A person, under the ideal scenario, shouldn't be barred from knowledge (whether a Masters or Phd) due to future considerations of having children and wanting to stay with them. Does it provide an extra cost to that household? Absolutely. Does it drop the ROI (Return on Investment)? Yes. At the same time, that same individual will be able to provide their knowledge to their children and whatever other places they decide to partake in. So it becomes a matter of how society, the government and its constituents want to function.

    Please bare I mind I am just having an intellectual conversation with you, not saying you are wrong.
    @(you need an account to see links)
    You provided a fair point. Opportunities should be equal, but how do we account for people's decision to live in welfare even if they are able-body (for example)? Since whether we like it or not, equal opportunity also leads to many socialist policies that tend to destroy society in the medium to long run.

  2. #22



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    @(you need an account to see links)
    Welfare is an entirely different ballgame and not one I am ready to discuss right here and right now, as it is an issue that is very complicated and requires research/data to back up claims (not very conducive to a neopets cheating forum, heh.) However, I will say this: I don't like how we throw socialism around like it's a bad word either. Socialist policies are oftentimes very effective -- look at Canada, Finland and Sweden. Socialist policies have not been implemented effectively in the United States, overall, but that does not mean there is not that potential. That being said, I agree, our welfare system is flawed. But that does not detract from my belief that the US, as a country, must strive for equal opportunity. And there are many ways we can move towards equal opportunity, the welfare system being only one and certainly not the most effective example of this. (For instance, dismantling systems of mass incarceration -- P.S. I highly recommend "On the Run" by Alice Goffman and "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander!)

    Interestingly enough, I agree with pretty much everything else you've said thus far. I do not think our lines of reasoning actually differ too much. You just read something into my argument that was not necessarily there (and would require a whole lot more time than I am willing to give to delve into fully.)

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  4. #23

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    @(you need an account to see links)
    I do agree that our line of thought intertwine and I may have gone off on a tangent specially when speaking to fellow Americans regarding socialism. The main concern I tried to bring is that it can be really easy for things to derail when we talk about equal opportunity and it can be tough to find a balance between the options at hand

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by formald3hyde View Post
    I think the whole idea of feminism got warped into something ridiculous when gender roles really started breaking down at the turn of the century. It seems a lot of the extremists started taking feminism to mean that women are superior to men and all men are scum who should go DIAF. It seems to be less about equality now and more about women being overly aggressive about their 'right' to be put on a pedestal and worshiped for being a strong independent woman who don't need no man. I'm all for equality, but in general I don't feel that feminists are seeking equality anymore. I hear more and more people arguing about ridiculous 'injustices' that are still being done to women, but most of them aren't even true. Not only that, but because of this new surge of independence, I feel like a lot of men are getting their own injustices that no one's fighting against. Why are feminists not called equalists? If there are feminists and people support that, why should there not also be masculists defending the rights of men? I know that sounds backwards because, hah, men have everything easy.

    But just as there are downfalls to being a woman there are downfalls to being a man. Dating, for example - men are still expected to make the first move. A lot of girls STILL wait 'for him to call' instead of taking action themselves. Men are expected to put themselves in the line of rejection which, trust me, is no less devastating for a man than it is for a woman. Men still have lower success rates in seeking child custody after divorce. While it's true that there are jobs that have historically predominantly employed men, there have also been jobs that have, historically, been 'for women'. Now, more and more woman are getting trades and doing hard physical labor, which is great if that's what they want to do, and they actually have a higher chance of being hired because employers like improving their gender equality statistics. But from another perspective, everyone woman in the workplace is one less man in the workplace. And that would be fine if society was making up for it somewhere and other jobs were starting to become flooded with men; but that hasn't really happened. You still don't see a lot of male nurses, receptionists, hair stylists, flight attendants, etc - and if you ARE a man working in a field like that, more often than not, people will assume you're gay.

    I just think that people take feminism too far these days, to the point where it's actually making things less equal in a lot of cases. Of course the above is just my personal opinion.
    This post said everything that's in my head perfectly. Especially your point about workplaces, and the assumption that if a man is a hair stylist, he must be gay. I personally do not care what the sexuality is of the person cutting my hair, but apparently that's a big deal for some people. And why do certain jobs have to be so "girly", and other jobs so "manly"? There's nothing girly about teaching preschoolers, for example. THAT is a female dominated job. Man are often looked at as pedophiles or creepy if they are pursuing a job as a preschool teacher. It's not fair, if you turn down male applicants, men who have studied early childhood education, are nurturing and overall good people, simply because they are men. It is not fair to your students, to have only female role models in their classroom. Many preschoolers live in single parent homes, where their father is not present, or have never met their father. Boys and girls deserve to be raised by people, not only one gender. And I'm only speaking in terms of the classroom - I don't want anyone to think I have a problem with same-sex parents. Preschool plays a major part in the raising of children.

    ---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sociopath View Post
    @(you need an account to see links) I acknowledged in my post about people that basically get a degree for pretty much nothing and I agree it is worth it in that situation. What I don't understand is going into debt or spending the time to go as far as a masters degree just to stay at home..waste of time
    In this sense... I have to say, if someone wants to get a degree and choose to be a stay at home mom/dad, that's none of my business. I think many folks over the years have forgotten why we go to college. Our degree doesn't mean "hire me", it means we achieved a level of education. It means we did the work. Knowledge is very powerful, and if I have a Masters degree in whatever major I choose, I can raise my children with that knowledge.
    EEL SUSHI

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sociopath View Post
    @(you need an account to see links) I acknowledged in my post about people that basically get a degree for pretty much nothing and I agree it is worth it in that situation. What I don't understand is going into debt or spending the time to go as far as a masters degree just to stay at home..waste of time
    Most of the time when that happens, they never planned on being a stay at home parent. Prepare for the worst case scenario (such as never getting married at all and being alone forever) and get the masters degree so you can support yourself. End up being intelligent and attracting an equally intelligent man. Have children together. Decide someone needs to stay home with the kids. This position defaults to women so bam... woman with degree ends up a SAHP.

    This is more what happens when you have to gamble with fate. If I could guarentee I would be a stay at home wife or something, then hell maybe I wouldn't go through so much trouble. But the future is blank. Might as well prepare for the fact that most people do not get that kind of life and do not have a rich enough partner to just prey to jesus you get to be a stay at home mom. I don't even know that I want that at this point, maybe I wouldn't even want that. In the future, if things were comfortable tho, maybe so. Then I guess my education would be useless.

    Kinda dickish to just assume people do it on purpose. SOMEONE has to raise the children and people want to marry people of equal intelligence to them so that the kids get raised intelligently. No neurosurgeon wants to marry an airhead that teaches his kids nothing beyond makeup application.

    ---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

    As far as feminism I have an issue with both sides right now.

    Frankly the "mens rights" people have turned into SJWs themselves. Literally anything on the internet you see aimed at women, the comments are full of social justice bullshit about how men are oppressed by women, etc. This used to be just the feminists doing this to men but now its both. All of you are being idiots. No one is being oppressed in America. Not men or women.

    I tend to think feminism has SLIGHTLY more reality to it than MRA because of global context. NOT in America and the developed countries, women are still routinely sex slaves and forbade to leave the house and other really fucking horrible shit that you can't ignore once you see in real life. Stuff like western people going to Thailand so they can fuck literal sex slaves without repercussions. An entire industry built around it called "sex tourism" that is frequented 99% by men. That is a real problem someone needs to fix and its not something im "blaming men for". Most of that can be covered by the umbrella of "human rights activist" better than feminism anyway so its a very weak support.

    American feminism is bullshit just as much as American MRAs. Both are SJW extremists that I will not give the time of day to.

    The problems in America men and women face like men getting the shaft in divorce proceedings, women getting fucked over in corporate environments, etc, are all symtoms of other things AND can be overcome quite easily through good use of the legal system or by just working harder and playing smart. Calling yourself a gender activist in America for either side makes me think you are a simple minded fool looking to blame other people for your problems instead of solving them yourself.

    ---

    To the people who are saying original feminism which sought to liberate women was bad and had horrible consequences for the family and economy, etc I have a fairly objective reason why is absolutely necessary.

    Overpopulation.

    The single biggest reason Europe/America's birthrate is not THROUGH THE ROOF still is the women's rights movement. When women exist to raise a family and make babies and teach the children... they make a lot of babies. When women can't control their reproductive health the entire world suffers.

    Look to India which is still totally based on women being homemakers and you can see the true consequences. Uneducated women who exist to serve their husbands cause vast overpopulation. Too many people for the earth to support. We CANT have every man and woman on this earth continue to reproduce. We need the XYZ amount of women to simply choose never to have kids at all, we need women who only have 1 kid because they value their careers, etc. Because history shows that women who are raised being told making babies and making a home are their only goals in life... make lots of babies lol.

    We can never return to that kind of life without overpopulating the earth.
    Last edited by CaptainNight; 04-14-2015 at 04:42 PM.
    [CENTER]Lazy and Paranoid

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  9. #26

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    There is a huge difference between Feminism and some of the feminazi/sjw crap I see recently. I think those people give feminism a bad name... Everyone should have equal rights regardless but those people take it to far.

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  11. #27
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    Yeah the ones that are like "ALL MEN MUST DIE WE DONT NEED NO MAN" need to chill ��
    what reallyyy grinds my gears tho are the dudes who act like that just to win more points w/ girls lol simp ass dudes tbh

    have you guys heard of menimism? lmfaoo

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mo View Post
    Yeah the ones that are like "ALL MEN MUST DIE WE DONT NEED NO MAN" need to chill ��
    what reallyyy grinds my gears tho are the dudes who act like that just to win more points w/ girls lol simp ass dudes tbh

    have you guys heard of menimism? lmfaoo
    Meninism seems like a bad joke tbh. It's like a bizarre parody of feminism.

  14. #29
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    every kind of movement is ok, unless it starts to get too radical

  15. #30


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    Meninism seems like a bad joke tbh. It's like a bizarre parody of feminism.
    I support everything.

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