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Thread: Affirmative Action - Good or Bad?

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    Azn's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Affirmative Action - Good or Bad?


    What do you guys think about Affirmative Action?

    For those who don't know, Affirmative action refers to policies that take factors including "race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin" into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination (Wikipedia).

    Basically it's reversed discrimination and is positive to minorities.

    For example, say Jane and Jill were two identical girls, made the same grades, scored the scores, played the same sports. However, Jane is white and Jill is black. If they both apply to the same college, Jill has a better chance of getting into college.

    So where do I stand on this topic?

    Well I'm actually on the fence on this one, believe it or not I do see Affirmative Action as a good thing, especially since it gives advantages to minorities who really need them. It's a really helpful crutch that some people need. I mean some people get into colleges because they have affiliations so I see it as the same thing.

    What's wrong with it? Well to start, some African Americans need it more than others. If Jill comes from a wealthy, well-educated family, why would she need it over Sally, an African American who is actually struggling to make ends meet because of her family history.

    I have more to say but I'll wait for you guys to say some stuff first.

    REMEMBER THIS IS THE DEBATE ZONE! THAT MEANS ALL POSTS MUST HAVE 3-5 SENTENCES. ALSO SOURCES ARE EXTREMELY HELPFUL!!!


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    Evelsaint's Avatar
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    Affirmative action is definitely a good thing. It helped the African Americans get out of the funk with the discrimination. The question then becomes, is affirmative action becoming obsolete? I believe it is, all the shit about "I wasn't chosen because I'm African American/Hispanic/Asian" is just a load of tripe. There comes a time when affirmative action actually promotes reverse discrimination to the point where it's unfair.

    Take this case for example, I attended a High School that was top in NYC and it was very selective regarding it's applicants, they had to take a specialized test just to rank themselves to get in. The statistics are as follow, 50% Caucasian, 35% Asian, 15% Other.

    It reached a point where they stopped taking in Asian students and had to accept more "minority" students who scored lower grades because there were an overwhelming number of high scorers. Asians are a minority in the US too, 4%!

    Affirmative action is become obsolete, it's a good thing but slowly dying.

    So I'm neutral for now.

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    Following the situation of Jane and Jill, the College should choose the best of both, not the minority nor the majority.
    The other part is, that in our world we still have discrimination (race, religion, gender...) so that is a big problem if the person who chooses between the applicants (lets say Jane and Jill) is a racist, then probably Jill has no chance.
    Personally, discrimination to majorities / minorities is just stupid, the only thing that matter is the capability of the person.

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    I agree with both of you.
    Part of me wants to say it's bad, while the rest wants to say it's good.
    I'll admit that in the past it has been very helpful for those who would be qualified for something and then turned down just because of race and such, but I do think Evelsaint is right, it is becoming obsolete by it's somewhat forcing of us to reverse discriminate.
    Right now, I don't think it's as much of an issue, but I feel if it continues on for too long, it's going to become one.

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    Azn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sqwahba View Post
    I agree with both of you.
    Part of me wants to say it's bad, while the rest wants to say it's good.
    I'll admit that in the past it has been very helpful for those who would be qualified for something and then turned down just because of race and such, but I do think Evelsaint is right, it is becoming obsolete by it's somewhat forcing of us to reverse discriminate.
    Right now, I don't think it's as much of an issue, but I feel if it continues on for too long, it's going to become one.
    Interesting point, but when would be a good time for it to stop?
    Segregation was still around in the 60s so if you think about it, it's only been 50 years.
    Is that enough time to correct hundreds of years of enslavement?

    Some might argue, what does that have to do with the current times?
    Well, because of history, I believe some African Americans have been stuck in a cycle of poverty and lack of education.
    It's extremely hard to get out of it and I feel things like Affirmative Action gives them a little boost.

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    Evelsaint's Avatar
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    Hey, look whose the President of the United States.

    They say African Americans need more help but that's bullshit. Asian people put the money into paying for Saturday and Sunday classes in prep school so they can get better grades. I come from public housing, I see many poor African Americans and equally poor Asian families.

    But The Asians invest their money, effort, and time into their child's education while African American families tend to buy drugs, weed, alcohol, and electronics, They also need those fancy rims, as a result, their kid's education goes neglected. They bitch about affirmative action and want something that they don't work for.

    It all boils down to how much effort they put into improving their own lives. There is no cycle that ties them down. It's all a matter of what they are willing to pay and invest in. Mostly they prefer to go for drugs and booze.

    Doesn't matter if they are Asian, Caucasian, Black, Hispanic, or Indian.

    Those who apply themselves can break from the cycle. Some just are content on coasting by on Food Stamps and Government Aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azn View Post
    Interesting point, but when would be a good time for it to stop?
    Segregation was still around in the 60s so if you think about it, it's only been 50 years.
    Is that enough time to correct hundreds of years of enslavement?

    Some might argue, what does that have to do with the current times?
    Well, because of history, I believe some African Americans have been stuck in a cycle of poverty and lack of education.
    It's extremely hard to get out of it and I feel things like Affirmative Action gives them a little boost.
    Honestly, I'm not all that sure when would be the most appropriate timing for it to end. I just think that if it goes on too much longer, it could cause issues.
    And I don't think any amount of time would be enough to 'correct' slavery. That will probably will stay forever in the back of everyone's minds. Not much we can to do make up for turning people into possessions.

    Affirmative Action does give minorities and such that little helping hand, but then I feel like that can cause the line to become blurred to where that helping hand becomes social favoritism.
    (Hopefully that makes sense. xD Didn't sleep last night... xD)

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    Azn's Avatar
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    You counter your own point by bring up Barrack Obama... Why? Because first, he's half white and secondly, he grew up with the white side of his family.
    Well if you grow up and all you ever had was an alcoholic father who had to live by selling drugs, then boom, chances are, you're next in line. (That is the cycle)
    This cycle is caused by poverty that spans all the way back to the days of slavery.

    I feel as if Whites who "are content on coasting by on Food Stamps and Government Aid" are the ones that put themselves in the cycle, not to say that the situation I brought up a couple sentences ago can't apply to a white kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azn View Post
    You counter your own point by bring up Barrack Obama... Why? Because first, he's half white and secondly, he grew up with the white side of his family.
    Well if you grow up and all you ever had was an alcoholic father who had to live by selling drugs, then boom, chances are, you're next in line. (That is the cycle)
    This cycle is caused by poverty that spans all the way back to the days of slavery.

    I feel as if Whites who "are content on coasting by on Food Stamps and Government Aid" are the ones that put themselves in the cycle, not to say that the situation I brought up a couple sentences ago can't apply to a white kid.
    Note my original quote saying it doesn't matter if you're white, asian, black, pink, red. The cycle can be broken and it does not need affirmative action to do so. They don't have to be African American either.

    As far as America is concerned, he is African American.

    I'm just saying that your idea of the cycle pretty much stems to a lot of people, immigrants, etc.

    My father came to the US with $5 in his pockets and My mom was still home pregnant with my sister. The odds were definitely more stacked for him, he didn't speak English, he only had the support of his relatives for housing. This shows that hardship can only be weathered through will power.

    I honestly feel horrible that the African Americans were slaves at one point but the fact is, it doesn't matter now. You can't hold onto the past forever. Do you think the Jews can have special laws and benefits for them for what happened during the holocaust in WWII?

    Racial discrimination exist but compared to it was back then, the Affirmative action is obsolete.

    Asians were discriminated against too but when people think Asian, they think hard working math geeks.

    Not lazy pot smoking alcoholics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evelsaint View Post
    I honestly feel horrible that the African Americans were slaves at one point but the fact is, it doesn't matter now. You can't hold onto the past forever. Do you think the Jews can have special laws and benefits for them for what happened during the holocaust in WWII?
    Fantastic point. (:

    Quote Originally Posted by Azn View Post
    You counter your own point by bring up Barrack Obama... Why? Because first, he's half white and secondly, he grew up with the white side of his family.
    Well if you grow up and all you ever had was an alcoholic father who had to live by selling drugs, then boom, chances are, you're next in line. (That is the cycle)
    This cycle is caused by poverty that spans all the way back to the days of slavery.

    I feel as if Whites who "are content on coasting by on Food Stamps and Government Aid" are the ones that put themselves in the cycle, not to say that the situation I brought up a couple sentences ago can't apply to a white kid.
    I disagree with this part, however. I feel as if there's more than just 'the cycle' that you mentioned.
    I live in Minnesota, where we have quite a few Somalis (No offense to anyone that may read this, I mean no disrespect. I'm just saying the ones that I know in my specific town.) and there are quite a few people who are most definitely content with using their Government Aid. (And also, I don't need a lecture about how they are refugees. I was just saying that it isn't just whites who can add themselves to the cycle.) Yes, we have white people here that also do that, but it's not just them.
    Also, I have had quite a few friends who's parents are alcoholics or do/sell drugs. I do believe that there is somewhat of a correlation between that and poverty, but I don't believe that it necessarily stems from slavery.

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