Is the theft of virtual goods or purchase of stolen virtual goods illegal?

[purekilla]

I don't believe so. The best they could get you with is profiting off viacom somehow. All the items in the game are on different users account and stuff, but technically it all belongs to neopets which is part of viacom. I don't believe it's illegal as you never really steal the items off neopets. They just get taken from one part of viacom's control to another. They never leave. It's scamming which is illegal in game, but outside, it would be a tough case to make.

i thought the same thing when i heard and read the runescape case since runescape owns all the content technically but yet in the Netherlands they still managed to make a case out of that

another question is for anyone who uses the market place like i do, i believe according to the 1080 EZ int he U.S. you have to file taxes if you make over 1500 dollars in a year, how do you get around this or do you file taxes on the money you make off of linegames?

[John]

i thought the same thing when i heard and read the runescape case since runescape owns all the content technically but yet in the Netherlands they still managed to make a case out of that

I'm fairly certain that wouldn't fly in the US. Also viacom/the US Judicial system have bigger things to worry about than neopets. Viacom is a massive media conglomerate and neopets is nowhere near the top of the totem pole for them.

[ladyoftheflowers]

Programmers and hackers are different.

Yeah, my bad there. I didn't mean actually being a hacker on Neopets. I don't have anywhere near the skill for that haha. I meant programmers and off-site buyers/sellers mostly. I know for a fact no one in the real world would care if they found out about that haha. Well.. maybe if they heard the prices some things go for they'd be shocked, but that's about the worst reaction I could see. Viacom really can't do anything about the cheaters except try and keep them off their site peacefully(ish) haha.

[purekilla]

I'm fairly certain that wouldn't fly in the US. Also viacom/the US Judicial system have bigger things to worry about than neopets. Viacom is a massive media conglomerate and neopets is nowhere near the top of the totem pole for them.

I do understand that and neopets is a dieing game in and of itself, my only worry and what im trying to figure out is, in a court of law, if a lawmaker wants to try to make a name for himself by somehow trying to take a argument over virtual goods to the supreme court, would it actually hold up? i had always thought there is no way since you technically never own anything and neither do any of the other players of the game but im just trying to do research on the situation


P.S.
no one has answered the question yet of the money you make and how you get around filing taxes or what you do with it to make it legally obtained

[Shawn]

and remember by hacker, it's not SSers and ABers or AAers, it's HACKING, getting unwelcomed entry into neopet's or viacom's DBs

[Mod]

So there was a court case in the Netherlands that 2 kids had gotten sentenced for stealing virtual items from runescape after assaulting a person to get them. The court had ruled that theft did take place as the person put time and effort into getting the items that were then stolen from him. It set a precedent in the Dutch court that virtual items had a value and that it was theft.

1. So my question i come to you all with, is the taking of neopets accounts or goods not owned by you considered theft in the U.S.
2. Are there any precedents in the U.S for a virtual items type of case?
3. If you pay for the taken goods are you still liable for the action?
4. How do you avoid paying taxes on your earnings from such activities without getting in trouble
5. Have any of you gotten in trouble for any of the activities included in this discussion?

1. No, it's a kid's game. Most people even use fake info on their accounts and TNT knows this (but discourages it).
There is no binding of personal, sensitive information like SSNs or revenue/tax info. If there were, THEN there may be legal complications regarding money and privacy.

2. Not that I know of for Neopets and other online games. Again, these are children's games. It's impractical for the gaming companies to run around accosting kids and loser-adults left and right, given how immature and greedy children are anyways. The most you get is a warning or a freeze/ban from the game's admins.

3. Only liability the buyer is held for is losing the stolen virtual goods when game admins catch them, or receiving no support from admin.

4. Most sellers don't make a huge profit, so they can cash them out and ignore it on their tax forms. Since it's not officially an occupation, you can hide the fact.
If you're paranoid, you can claim 'gift' from others.
If you're making 5+ digits a year off these games, then you might need a proper alibi. Again, you can say anything like a gaming service, small business, etc.

5. Other than getting warned or a banned account, no. The game admins are in no authority outside of their own games to punish us. Going back to my first answer, it might when an account entails sensitive, real information, or hefty sums of money. But Neopets and the like, no.

---

The Dutch courts may have been bored and just decided to make an example of deterrence, since they actually caught some kids.

Remember here, that the perpetrators here assaulted another and were caught. That's a different situation, physical altercation and further grounds to be charged.
Most of us will never see our victims, or throw a punch at them. So unless you're dumb and make yourself found, or have an irrational hate towards another, you're safe from the law and anonymity.

[Batgirl]

lol am I the only one who tells my parents I sell/buy neopets stuff, and they don't care, they think it's good I'm attempting to make $$ XD

[wrath]

My parents know I make dough online, but I've never told them the specific site, not out of embarrassment, just purely because they wouldn't know/understand/get it if I did.

[purekilla]

Mod, i like how detailed your post is, and ya i thought about the dutch courts and the only reason it was taken to court is because of the physical part of the case, i was just wondering the liability behind getting into such big dealings


***New Question***
Does having money in your paypal account *ex* (receiving money for selling neopoints etc.) count as income or does it not count as income until you transfer it to a bank account

persay could you use money from the paypal acc to buy giftcards or such and get around the fact of income as a whole or since you technically have it, it is income?

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

lol am I the only one who tells my parents I sell/buy neopets stuff, and they don't care, they think it's good I'm attempting to make $$ XD

i told my parents and they are the ones that are getting so anal about this haha, i have all of my legal bases covered (i think) but they want me to do more research and checking to make sure they cant be held liable if anything is traced to their i.p. so they are legally fine incase anything happens

[Shawn]

are you a lawyer