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Thread: Creationism vs. Evolution

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonrash View Post
    Why does having a conscience matter so much? We don't have sonar like bats, does that make us inferior? Why does IQ matter? The ability to take a math test doesn't matter in the wild.

    You say you believe in creationism, yet I'd like you to really talk about creationism itself. You may say everything to refute evolution, but talk about creationism. Also how can you know what God looked like ("in God's image"), if you (or anyone) have never seen "him"?

    "For example, our body parts and organs work together perfectly."
    Then what does that say about a plant's ability to utilize photosynthesis? Plants weren't created in God's image, this is a trait that plants have because they evolved to have this trait. Everything has evolved, and everything will continue evolving.

    Also, I don't have a faith (I have the lack of a faith), so bash it all you want

    .....and if it's not clear, then to answer the title: Evolution.
    It matters because it's God creating man in his own image. That's what a conscience is--so we can continue to seek God.
    And no, that doesn't make us inferior. I feel that you are just arguing the other side. Bats have sonar, all animals have their special niches or capabilites that are all the creative work of God.

    And exactly. THe animals live in the wild. They are not as smart or civilized, and that is what differentiates them from us.

    God does not have a body either. He has a presence but he cannot be seen. But he did manifest as Jesus (in my religion, Christianity), so therefore he must have know that from the beginning. And like all evolutionists, you're going by "what cannot be seen does not exist". Same can be said for you, though: have you ever seen evolution happen? When some minuscule single-celled organism turned into us? No. So therefore by your logic evolution is not plausible either. Evolution is as much a faith as religion.

    By "our" I don't mean humans. I mean animals in general, but that can be extended to plants. My point is that everything is so perfectly and intricately designed, and you seemed to have proved that fact for me, so thank you

    As I mentioned before, evolution is a faith as well. It's still a "theory" and unless we can build a giant time machine and relive every step of the so-called process then it will be a faith.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonchalantic View Post
    It matters because it's God creating man in his own image. That's what a conscience is--so we can continue to seek God.
    And no, that doesn't make us inferior. I feel that you are just arguing the other side. Bats have sonar, all animals have their special niches or capabilites that are all the creative work of God.

    And exactly. THe animals live in the wild. They are not as smart or civilized, and that is what differentiates them from us.

    God does not have a body either. He has a presence but he cannot be seen. But he did manifest as Jesus (in my religion, Christianity), so therefore he must have know that from the beginning. And like all evolutionists, you're going by "what cannot be seen does not exist". Same can be said for you, though: have you ever seen evolution happen? When some minuscule single-celled organism turned into us? No. So therefore by your logic evolution is not plausible either. Evolution is as much a faith as religion.

    By "our" I don't mean humans. I mean animals in general, but that can be extended to plants. My point is that everything is so perfectly and intricately designed, and you seemed to have proved that fact for me, so thank you

    As I mentioned before, evolution is a faith as well. It's still a "theory" and unless we can build a giant time machine and relive every step of the so-called process then it will be a faith.
    lol that was a little offensive. There are humans that live in the wild, and are civilized in their own minds. Who are you to say if someone is civilized or not?

    No, evolution is not a faith, neither is creationism, it's a way of thinking. Not a faith. A faith is something you practice or even worship. I don't have faith in evolution, I believe it. There's nothing else.

    How can something without a body create things? And considering he doesn't have a body, he's only a presence, HOW CAN HE MAKE SOMETHING "IN HIS OWN IMAGE"?? Seriously though please answer me that. So we just poofed onto the earth one day? One day it was just dinosaurs, then "God" got bored and made humans, just for the heck of it? How did it happen? Did he send the first humans down as babies, and they grew up? Yes, I know the fairy tale of Adam and Eve, but it doesn't really tell me anything.

    Evolution is happening constantly. You know what was recently discovered?
    Humans have evolved so that our fingers get wrinkly when they're left in the water. You know why? So we can grip things better. Isn't that interesting? Scientists found that out. I think it's a little insulting to say that was a work of god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonrash View Post
    lol that was a little offensive. There are humans that live in the wild, and are civilized in their own minds. Who are you to say if someone is civilized or not?

    No, evolution is not a faith, neither is creationism, it's a way of thinking. Not a faith. A faith is something you practice or even worship. I don't have faith in evolution, I believe it. There's nothing else.

    How can something without a body create things? And considering he doesn't have a body, he's only a presence, HOW CAN HE MAKE SOMETHING "IN HIS OWN IMAGE"?? Seriously though please answer me that. So we just poofed onto the earth one day? One day it was just dinosaurs, then "God" got bored and made humans, just for the heck of it? How did it happen? Did he send the first humans down as babies, and they grew up? Yes, I know the fairy tale of Adam and Eve, but it doesn't really tell me anything.

    Evolution is happening constantly. You know what was recently discovered?
    Humans have evolved so that our fingers get wrinkly when they're left in the water. You know why? So we can grip things better. Isn't that interesting? Scientists found that out. I think it's a little insulting to say that was a work of god.
    How is that offensive? o.O I'm talking about animals, not humans. Animals cannot get offended, because the have no conscience, duh.

    You're wrong in that. Faith is not practice. Faith is believe. Religion is practice, worship. Go look the word up, because they are two different things.

    How can't He? He's God. Omnipotent (or almost. He cannot do evil.) He does not have a body, but if you know enough about the Holy Trinity you would know that His Son has a body that was there from creation.
    And no, the process you described wasn't like that at all. In the beginning, there was nothing. He created the heavens, the earth, the plants, the animals... all at once. Dinosaurs and humans coexisted. Adam and Eve were the first humans.

    Um... I just took my shower and my fingers were wrinkly. And that's a very small scale evolution, what I call adaptation. As a creationist, I do believe there are small scale adaptations. But show me a human becoming a flying three-toed goose and I'll believe in evolution. That's essentially what happened when birds "became" dinosaurs or whatever there is. Interspecies adaptation? Fine. Grand changes from a microorganism to the diversity we have today? More like a kid's book than anything else.

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    Same can be said for you, though: have you ever seen evolution happen? When some minuscule single-celled organism turned into us? No. So therefore by your logic evolution is not plausible either. Evolution is as much a faith as religion.
    *twitch* *twitch* *twitchhhhhhh*

    Do you understand the CONCEPT of evolution at ALL? Honestly, have you ever been taught it in school or did you go to a school were it was banned? O.o
    How is the world are we supposed to "see evolution happen" when it an ever changing multi-million year process? If it helps, yes I have seen minute scales of evolution happen in science experiments that I myself performed with flies. Before you answer that that doesn't apply to humans, you can't just pick and choose that evolution only applies to one species. We are all interrelated, with humans and apes having only 1% of DNA difference between us. In my fly experiment, I caused a complete change in eye color, wing shape, and eye shape in an entire community of flies within the space of a semester. So no, it's not a faith in the least.



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    Quote Originally Posted by nonchalantic View Post
    More like a kid's book than anything else.
    Sounds like the bible to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by esperanto View Post
    *twitch* *twitch* *twitchhhhhhh*

    Do you understand the CONCEPT of evolution at ALL? Honestly, have you ever been taught it in school or did you go to a school were it was banned? O.o
    How is the world are we supposed to "see evolution happen" when it an ever changing multi-million year process? If it helps, yes I have seen minute scales of evolution happen in science experiments that I myself performed with flies. Before you answer that that doesn't apply to humans, you can't just pick and choose that evolution only applies to one species. We are all interrelated, with humans and apes having only 1% of DNA difference between us. In my fly experiment, I caused a complete change in eye color, wing shape, and eye shape in an entire community of flies within the space of a semester. So no, it's not a faith in the least.
    As a matter of fact I do. You're missing the point. Whether it be possible or not to actually see it does not matter in my argument. Possible or not, unless you did see it happen it is a faith. Since there is no way to see it happen they you have not seen it happen, therefore it IS a faith.

    I didn't say it doesn't apply to humans. If you read my above post at all you'll see that I believe in small scale adaptations. But large-scale, like changes of SPECIES... try getting a fly to change into a bird, eh? post a video of it evolving into a bird and I'll believe you then.

    Just because humans have "less wrinkles" doesn't prove that wolves came from fish, see what I mean?

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    @(you need an account to see links) wanna see evolution? Read into caterpillars and butterflies


    Hello I am retired.



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    ryannnnn whaaaaaaat you to :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by furby View Post
    ryannnnn whaaaaaaat you to :/
    o.O Don't look down on someone who I'm assuming is your friend because they believe something different than you.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonchalantic View Post
    It's still a "theory" and unless we can build a giant time machine and relive every step of the so-called process then it will be a faith.
    There will always be critics. Creationists like yourself do not trust the capabilities of man itself, since God is 'omnipotent'. You guys could argue no matter how close science gets, it would all be attributed to God 'throwing us a bone'. Say someone did invent a time machine for us to view the past. Would you consider it legit, or some wacky experiment with no merit, blasphemy?

    The same could be said for the current health sciences. Whether you disprove it or not, other creationists may view topic such as genetics a bunch of lies and coincidence that 'if we take this piece of skin and scan it under this thingamajig, we'll get these Xs and Os!'.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonchalantic View Post
    Same can be said for you, though: have you ever seen evolution happen? When some minuscule single-celled organism turned into us? No. So therefore by your logic evolution is not plausible either. Evolution is as much a faith as religion.
    We can't see evolution because it is shaped over millions of years, beyond our lifetimes. Any immediate changes would be termed 'mutation' by scientific definition. What we can base evolution on, is obtainable, physical evidence left on the planet by our ancestors and ancestors of other species. But I know what you're thinking. Again, all coincidence that doesn't mean a damn, right? Just as you say evolution is as much a faith is religion, doesn't mean it is false. After all, you believe your religion to be true, yes?

    Creationists only base their perception of God and the like on written historical works, supported by organizations and major events such as wars of which all come from The Bible itself. All we have are relics of the past, scientific footprints and written works like the Bible. No one has seen God (as you say, he doesn't want to be seen, thus can hide or erase our memories at will). So does that make your faith any more legitimate than our 'faith'?

    Quote Originally Posted by nonchalantic View Post
    Animals cannot get offended, because the have no conscience, duh.
    They do. They have brains, don't they? Brains store memory, if anything science has shown, removal or damage to certain parts of the brain (eg. cerebrum) will impair memory and alter personality. This is something we know for certain, we can observe immediately. Because of severe brain damage, people we term 'psychopaths' are also said to lack conscience, if literary more than science. It's all relative to the brain.

    If anything, it's to do with brain size. Organisms with small brains such as fish still have a conscience; but due to limited processing capability, they quickly forget. Emotions such as joy, fear, etc. But they do fear (for instance) when the moment calls for it, and go out to aid their kind. Same with predators, they have a conscience to kill, a tiger doesn't blindly run against 10 elephants out of instinct, it evaluates the situation for the time best to strike. But if you argue that killing is not moral or involving a conscience, what about humans who kill animals for food? Yes, we too evaluate and think about it before killing (most of the time), so shouldn't we also lack a conscience then, by your definition?

    I hope you don't go around beating dogs and 'lesser animals' because you see them as lacking a conscience, by your ideals.

    As for you seeing humans as the only intelligent beings in existence and thus, God must have created us alone, right? The universe is too expansive for us to know of other extraterrestrial species. You're probably thinking now, 'Yeah, could be. But until we find them, evolution is a bunch of BS'. Humanity simply isn't as incredible as you believe it to be. We're still very primitive and should civilization survive another 1,000 years, we will be far more understanding and technologically advanced by then (and continue until extinction of humans itself). Just as you can argue we haven't found Aliens yet and are thus unique creations of God, we can say we just don't have the means to now, and that God doesn't exist because we can't find 'him'.

    You're going to say we can't find him because he doesn't want us to. Well if he's so all-powerful as your ultimate reason, why even have this debate? Anything we say can be vetoed by that, whether we know the truth or not. Be open to understanding and enforce an argument with believable, comprehendable facts at the 'mortal' level, otherwise it's just plain meritless.

    I guess we'll know for sure when Aliens rain down from their motherships and blast us to bits, huh? Or maybe you'll tell us it's God's interpretation of the tribulation and apocalypse?
    Last edited by Mod; 02-11-2013 at 02:05 AM.

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