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Thread: Your opinion on this?

  1. #21
    IndigoSunset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mango View Post
    This is really old but the Student does make a good point. He uses the Teachers own logic and turns it against him at the end. Great argument
    Except he uses a flawed logic as I already pointed out

  2. #22
    Yoku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndigoSunset View Post
    I don't believe in god but if others want to, why should I try and make them feel stupid for doing so?(Unless it's being used as an agenda to push through 'moral' things into law, of course)
    Well, I still believe in people justifying their beliefs (and thought process, in general) through reason and non-bias critical thinking and conversation. If people of religion can't defend, explain, or understand the very basis for how they live and treat others, I think they kind of deserve to feel stupid, though I don't like to see it happen. It's a pretty profound thing, a person and his or her relationship with God and his or her origin; he or she should be objective about it.
    Sorry if I've offended anyone, I know it's a provocative issue, but I sincerely don't want to upset anyone.

    'Later!

  3. #23

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    I just don't like people who use the Bible to justify their hate for me (since I'm gay) even though they haven't even met me yet. The Bible is against homosexuality like it's against murder. But anyone that is religious or non religious knows that murder is wrong, it's unethical and unmoral. I knew that murder was wrong when I was kid, I didn't need to get my morals from the Bible. The same cannot be said about homosexuality.
    This may be an a little off topic, but I agree with this. I hate it when people use the Bible as law or to back up their arguments. I believe the law of God doesn't change over time, but I also believe that the Bible should be tweaked a little because it was written so long ago.. in a whole other society. Like people who commit adultery aren't stoned and killed anymore and that was in the Bible. God may say man is for woman and vice versa but let's face it, there were tons of gay people in the old days. well maybe it's just me but sometimes people use the Bible out of context

  4. #24
    tcas4200's Avatar
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    Ya, the argument is biased to one side. There's a whole internet full of these.

    I'll state that I'm a catholic though I have my own views on stuff which I believe is okay. It is in fact okay to have different views from the bible as christians are allowed to interpret it (official). Other official views are that non christians (jews, buddhists, atheists (official view)) can make it into heaven if they believe in Jesus (one interpretation of believing in Jesus is doing good will on earth (opinion)). The 4 gospel sections were written by humans, having been reduced down from many selections. Adam and Eve didn't write crap down on what God said during their creation and the story was passed on of however long it took before recorded history began (very debatable if this even happened, likely not). That said I ignore a lot of what the bible states as truth but rather (as I think it was intended) use it for guidance on how to view the world. God also only speaks to people I believe ~4 times in the bible for the record.

    I still believe in evolution due to the evidence available and that science can explain everything (including so called miracles) that have occured. There have been all sorts of plausible theories of how Moses parting the sea was the result of a far away earthquake that allowed the water to recede. Any description of the event again was fudged by humans. Something else entirely could explain it too. Heck even turning water to wine or Jesus's visual assention to heaven could have physics behind it somehow or been fudged in description. A lot of this inuse123 has briefly mentioned so I'm agreeing with much of what they said.

    I like to view these arguments based on their utility. As I don't think a mini-chat is going to convert anybody, I'll just share one view that I find useful. I like that someone brought up free will into discussion. My view on free will is that it does not matter. Imagine a world with free will and one without. Would you be able to tell the difference? A quick shoddy analysis lets me observe that I feel no limitations on what I can do other than the laws of what is called physics limit me to do. In other words I don't think it matters at all. In fact in my own opinion I don't believe that humans have free will. If God was somehow very omnipotent, he could somehow configure the big bang to have the universe unfold exactly as it has (resulting in things people call miracles are just physics unfolding in my opinion though with special God mode hax to have physics be just right to happen). While the whole action-reaction certainty would fit fine in more classical physics there is uncertainty "no pun" in whether physics has uncertainty in it. I'm no theoretical physicist though there is debate whether randomness applies to the universe which would shoot down my argument. I don't claim to hold answers so I'm just making a best guess based on what I can reason. The church and physicists will flip flop on issues so much that I think it comes down to the individual much more. Recently there's been the argument challenging the view that the big bang couldn't have just suddenly been triggered as it was the beginning of spacetime though Stephen Hawking believes otherwise. This alone shows how much views will change on subjects.

    I think it's hard to fight the view that doing good will toward men is a bad view. You don't have to go to church if you don't think you should in your life like if you don't believe in God in the first place. I would say though that religious institutions like churches are means through which someone can become a better moral person. Just like going to the doctor will give you the capacity to be a healthier person based on what your doctor says during a physical. And of course a persons misability to interpret some information can have serious consequences. The outliers in the Islamic faith that believe in killing non believers due to a couple of phrases in the Quran should reconsider the human factor and the overall tone of the Quran.

    That said I also think on the flipside that people are overconfident in their role in life. With real world statistics is easy to see financially that 1/4 of near retired USA citizens are financially insolvent in that those 1/4 have saved less than $10K for the next twenty years of retirement. I also imagine that a very large population of the world adjusts their morals to fit their lifestyle rather than the other way around. You'll stick around friends of the same viewpoint. The idea of self reinforcement from psycology and sociology is not new though I believe it is the greatest challenge that I think faces humans based on my beliefs in God. I ask that you look at your views and see how they'd fit with God if you were a believer. If you're not I'd at least hope that you intend to be a good person anyway.

    Don't have a closer or anything. This didn't fit anywhere so I guess I'll say it here that I don't believe that praying has actual effects on what you pray for. I rather see prayer as a means of meditating on problems and such. I look to many Buddhist ideologies for inspiration. I also kinda think about this from time to time to evaluate what I believe but don't have it down in any order. Might have left something out but here's just some of my own personal thoughts.

    Edit: Actually had a cool thing to say for closing a post. I don't really see much wrong with the activities of this website (assuming no scams between buyers/sellers). In the grand scheme of things we're really just dealing with pixels which I don't think hold any worldly importance and are intangible. It is said in the bible "loosely paraphrasing" that you should not be attached to your worldly possessions. They can be taken like a thief in the night by the mighty banhammer that is TNT's trigger happy freeze power. I think that explains why many of us are here (I'm here due to an unfair freeze anyway). I've even been hacked before so I've seen this from all sides. For some people being hacked is time to move on but for some others they'll complain to TNT to be unfrozen but it's their call. Shit happens. My views on real world financial systems is different though. I despise hackers seeking personal gain at someones expense (virtual items are not personal expense but that's my opinion) and I think a significant proportion of hactivists are motivated by personal agendas rather than global ones. -tcas4200
    Last edited by tcas4200; 01-15-2012 at 04:51 AM.

  5. #25

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    haha my biology teacher always makes us repeat that it's not er evolved from monkeys, it's that we have a common ancestor. The part mentioning the professor's brain was hilarious xD but we can't test the presence of God (that I know of) but we can test the presence of the professor's brain (by cracking his head open =\) so really the comparison should be invalid. But man that was fun to read =]

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